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Send us a text Nestled within the captivating world of collegiate baseball lies an extraordinary tale of transformation. Phil Schallenberger, head coach of Messiah University's baseball program, guides us through his team's remarkable journey from a disheartening 1-7 start to playing for the Division III College World Series championship. The turning point came not through a strategic overhaul but a profound shift in perspective. After striking out 15 times against the #1 ranked team, Schall...
Nestled within the captivating world of collegiate baseball lies an extraordinary tale of transformation. Phil Schallenberger, head coach of Messiah University's baseball program, guides us through his team's remarkable journey from a disheartening 1-7 start to playing for the Division III College World Series championship.
The turning point came not through a strategic overhaul but a profound shift in perspective. After striking out 15 times against the #1 ranked team, Schallenberger embraced honest player feedback that would reshape their season: "Coach, it's not that you're communicating anything wrong—it's that it's being interpreted differently than intended." This vulnerability opened doors to authentic dialogue and a liberating team philosophy centered on purpose beyond outcomes.
Schallenberger reveals how creating a culture where conflict is valued rather than avoided became their secret weapon. "If there's no tension or friction, then you just have people saying yes because they think that's what they're supposed to do," he explains. This environment nurtured a team described by one veteran umpire as "the most unified and selfless team I've seen in 20+ years."
The conversation delves into practical strategies behind Messiah's explosive offense—stealing over 160 bases while breaking school home run records—and how removing fear fostered aggressive yet intelligent baseball. Drawing from his experience with the viral sensation Savannah Bananas, Schallenberger explains how incorporating fun and self-expression actually elevated their competitive edge.
Perhaps most compelling is Schallenberger's evolution from a coach who "hated losing more than loved winning" to one reporters called "the happiest coach I've ever seen lose a baseball game" after their championship defeat. His response? "Our identity truly isn't wrapped up in wins."
Whether you're a coach seeking to transform your program, a player looking to elevate your mental approach, or simply someone who appreciates stories of remarkable turnarounds, this conversation offers wisdom that transcends the diamond. Listen now to discover how surrendering outcomes might be your path to achieving what once seemed impossible.
Creating a culture where honest feedback and authentic communication thrive between coaches and players
• Embracing conflict as necessary for growth rather than something to be avoided
• Shifting from pressure-filled, outcome-focused baseball to playing with freedom and purpose
• Developing an aggressive base-running system that stole over 160 bases while maintaining an 80+% success rate
• Building a multi-dimensional offense that broke school home run records while remaining fundamentally sound
• Learning to surrender outcomes and find identity beyond baseball results
• Applying lessons from coaching with the Savannah Bananas to create an environment where players enjoy the game
• Encouraging players to embrace their personalities while maintaining competitive excellence
Join our podcast weekly for more insights from the best coaches in baseball as we break down the game and share incredible behind-the-scenes stories.
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Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:01.141 --> 00:00:06.152
For most teams starting out the season 1-7 could be an indicator of a long season.
00:00:06.152 --> 00:00:08.044
Not for today's guest.
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He didn't just turn the season around.
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They played in a Division III College World Series championship game.
00:00:14.730 --> 00:00:19.027
Phil Schallenberger, messiah University, head baseball coach.
00:00:19.027 --> 00:00:21.152
Next on Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
00:00:23.381 --> 00:00:28.065
Welcome to Baseball Coaches Unplugged with Coach Ken Carpenter, presented by AthleteOne.
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Baseball Coaches Unplugged is a podcast for baseball coaches With 27 years of high school baseball coaching under his belt, here to bring you the inside scoop on all things baseball, from game-winning strategies and pitching secrets to hitting drills and defensive drills.
00:00:42.305 --> 00:00:43.469
We're covering it all.
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Whether you're a high school coach, college coach or just a baseball enthusiast, we'll dive into the tactics and techniques that make the difference on and off the field.
00:00:51.985 --> 00:00:54.432
Discover how to build a winning mentality.
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Inspire your players and get them truly bought into your game philosophy Plus, get the latest insights on recruiting, coaching, leadership and crafting a team culture that champions productivity and success.
00:01:05.424 --> 00:01:10.048
Join Coach every week as he breaks down the game and shares incredible behind-the-scenes stories.
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Your competitive edge starts here, so check out the show weekly and hear from the best coaches in the game.
00:01:15.766 --> 00:01:17.691
On Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
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It helps us to grow the show.
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Today I sit down with Division III National Runner-Up at Messiah University Head Baseball Coach, phil Schallenberger.
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Coach, thanks for taking time to be on Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
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Absolutely.
00:02:38.105 --> 00:02:41.104
Thanks for having me Getting excited for this conversation.
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Well, when the 2025 season started, if I'd have told you Messiah University would be playing in the national championship game, what would you have said?
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I would have said we have a long, long way to go, especially if you were to ask me that after our first seven games.
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So I knew we had talent, I knew we were capable, but I think at that point we were still trying to win our first conference championship in 12 years.
00:03:07.618 --> 00:03:12.751
So I would have said that I would have not said that that's.
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I'd say our odds would have been pretty slim at that point.
00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:20.890
Well, like you said, you led right into my next question.
00:03:20.890 --> 00:03:23.688
You started the season, I believe, 1-7.
00:03:23.688 --> 00:03:25.322
But then you.
00:03:25.322 --> 00:03:29.384
What every coach wants is it's how you finish.
00:03:29.384 --> 00:03:35.050
And you won, I believe, 22 out of the last 24 before the national championship.
00:03:35.050 --> 00:03:41.007
Can you explain how the team kind of transformed throughout the season as it progressed?
00:03:42.979 --> 00:04:08.411
Sure, I think probably where to start would be at the very, very beginning, even just working into the fall practice season, um, and at the end, towards the end of the summer, I actually sat down with our who ended up being our team captain, uh, jared gordon, who was our two hitter, second baseman, and we sat at a coffee shop, uh, just kind of talking through like the vision for what next year looked like and and what I needed from him.
00:04:08.411 --> 00:04:10.146
And I was like what do you, what do you guys need from me?
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And one of the really cool things we got to do as a team is we went on a missions trip to the Dominican Republic and got to go down there the year prior, and so our focus like really started to shift there towards like of glorifying God with everything that we do in in our play and pointing others closer to him.
00:04:31.201 --> 00:04:38.863
And and so I was a little nervous going into that next season in terms of knowing we were really talented, knowing that we had just broke the school record for wins the year prior of where are we going to be able to keep that same mindset?
00:04:38.863 --> 00:04:48.680
And, um, and we got into the season and, um, honestly, I think our mindset was just, it wasn't on that it was.
00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:51.389
It was on how do we, how do we win these baseball games?
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How do we go down to Christopher Newport usually a top 25 team and try to beat them in a three game series?
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How do we then go to Randolph-Macon the next week and play three games against the top 25 team and then, to top it off, go play hopkins right after that, which is the number one team in the country at the time?
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And, uh, so our schedule was.
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I mean, I think that's what people didn't recognize too when they saw how many losses we had of how tough or out of conference schedule actually was.
00:05:15.723 --> 00:05:19.009
But, um, we got past.
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Like once we finished hopkins we were, like you said, one in six or one in seven and and we had just struck out 15 times in that game as an offense and that's one of our things as an offense of like limiting the strikeouts and and putting pressure on defenses.
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And, um, on the on the way back from that ride, like a little frustrated, had a good conversation with it with a couple players that came to the front of the bus and just were chatting a little bit and we just kind of were trying to figure out where did we go wrong?
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Because we had the same, almost the same team with some really good pieces coming in, and it was where did we need to adjust?
00:05:55.750 --> 00:06:00.672
And I actually ended up again, like coffee shop seems to be a common theme with our guys.
00:06:00.672 --> 00:06:03.129
But I met this player at a different player at a coffee shop.
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We just sat down and talked about, hey, like where are we, what are we missing?
00:06:09.086 --> 00:06:11.959
And uh, one of the things he said was coach, I just feel like it's not that you're communicating anything that's wrong.
00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:15.988
It's, it's that it's being interpreted in a way that I don't think you want it to be.
00:06:15.988 --> 00:06:23.370
And that was a huge like kind of slap in the face for me of just because I'm communicating something doesn't mean that it's being heard the way I want it to.
00:06:23.370 --> 00:06:26.577
And knowing that each guy hears something a little differently.
00:06:26.817 --> 00:06:32.802
And that was like our offensive philosophy and we didn't want to get beat deep like in terms of offensively wanting to catch the ball out front.
00:06:32.802 --> 00:06:42.028
And I think guys took that as like, oh, we need to try to like pull everything and catch everything out front, and we ended up getting kind of fooled on off speed pitches, but at that same time.
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It was was we started to grasp like, the idea of, of just this, the surrender of like, look like, if our ultimate purpose, if our outcomes, don't dictate our identity, then why are we so worried about the outcomes?
00:06:53.803 --> 00:07:18.415
And it was we were playing tight, we were playing with like pressure-filled baseball early in the season, like we needed to match what we did the year prior and it, honestly, it I wouldn't even really say that that like kind of that release or monkey off our back came until after we won the conference championship and then from that point on, it just felt like there was just like like somebody just let all of the tension and air out of the room right when we won that.
00:07:18.415 --> 00:07:26.238
It was like we just started playing our best baseball at that point and, um, seeing that take place was really cool, but it wouldn't.
00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:28.425
Without those struggles early on, we're not where we're at.
00:07:28.425 --> 00:07:42.302
If we weren't playing those good teams early on, we wouldn't have made the turnaround and we made some adjustments here and there, but I think the biggest one was just showing up every day, not so consumed with ourselves, or like guys weren't as consumed with what their stats were.
00:07:42.302 --> 00:07:49.935
It was just like how do we kind of right the ship here and just play for each other and play for the glory of God with the talents he's given us?
00:07:49.935 --> 00:07:57.360
So I mean, there's so many stories that lead up to that, but kind of in a nutshell, that's kind of what it looked like and I'm sure we'll get into the weeds of here a little bit more.
00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:04.406
But yeah, it was that rough start led us to where we got to at the end of the season, no doubt.
00:08:04.846 --> 00:08:46.390
But I think what you said there was I think that is just as critical as anything else is when you said you were able to sit down and one of your players was able to speak to you and give you some honest feedback and it may not have been exactly what you're thinking you wanted to hear, but after you hear that, I think when the team has the ability to be able to go to the coach and talk that way, that that really is a good thing for the team yeah, I, we say it all the time like, like, I think people look at conflict as like it's bad and it's not.
00:08:46.471 --> 00:08:54.683
If there's no tension or friction, then you just have all the people that are just saying yes because they think that's what they're supposed to do.
00:08:54.683 --> 00:08:57.331
We have 40 plus guys.
00:08:57.331 --> 00:08:58.421
All of them think differently.
00:08:58.421 --> 00:09:06.047
Our assistant coaches think differently than me and, in fact, if I'm the smartest person in the room, then we're probably not growing as much as we could.
00:09:06.388 --> 00:09:13.850
And um, and one of the things, one of the books that was super impactful for me over the last couple of years I read this probably five or six years ago.
00:09:13.850 --> 00:09:37.000
It was called the culture code by a coil and um, one of the stories in there was just like Popovich, the way that he led the Spurs was this openness to like critique his coaching, like openness to have conversations but it's a two way street too of the players openness to be critiqued and corrected and be spurred on and push forward.
00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:48.902
And I mean I mean it says it like iron sharpens iron, like, like it's a, it's a biblical principle, it's like you're sharpening each other, like, if you're not sharpening each other, then we're not, then what are we doing?
00:09:48.902 --> 00:09:58.581
And I think sometimes we take conflict as like offensive, but usually when we're offended by like a critique, that means that we like there's actually something internal that we need to deal with anyway.
00:09:58.581 --> 00:10:06.173
And so for me like I I'm not always great at it Like there are times if it's not in the right setting, I get offended at first, but then I'm able to come back around to it.
00:10:06.312 --> 00:10:20.465
But I think one of the things we tried to create was just an open, like an open door and an open policy where it's just like hey, like I I don't know everything, and that vulnerability piece within our program is so crucial where our guys know that, like I'm open to hear what their thoughts are.
00:10:20.465 --> 00:10:24.048
In fact, like some of the best things we've ever done are because of suggestions that they've made.
00:10:24.048 --> 00:10:27.153
And I asked them, like hey, what do we need?
00:10:27.153 --> 00:10:36.791
And like cause they know they're, they're with each other more than I'm even with them, and so like they're having conversations in the dorms and like walking to and from class.
00:10:36.791 --> 00:10:44.206
So like if I'm not listening to our players, then I'm not doing a good job at leading them because I'm not knowing what they need the most.
00:10:44.206 --> 00:10:52.539
And that open policy and that ability to come to each other and work through conflict is actually what makes us better.
00:10:52.539 --> 00:10:57.692
A team absent of conflict is usually a team that's not growing and is stagnant.
00:10:58.259 --> 00:10:59.365
Totally agree with you on that one.
00:10:59.365 --> 00:11:14.493
Now, it sounds like what you said earlier was I wrote a question out and I said, as a coaching staff, was there a time when you looked at each other's coaches and said, well, we got a chance to make a deep run here in this tournament?
00:11:14.493 --> 00:11:19.297
And it sounds like right after you won the league title?
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Is that correct?
00:11:26.940 --> 00:11:27.763
yeah, I would say that was one of them.
00:11:27.783 --> 00:11:31.235
I think I I would still say like I'm not sure if that's when we were like man, we could really make a huge run here.
00:11:31.235 --> 00:11:53.643
Um, there was a, there was a point throughout the season where we, um, we played like seven games in eight days or eight games in seven days where like backed up rain, like played double headers and we we didn't throw like our best arms in conference that week just because like the way it lined up and we, we didn't throw like our best arms in conference that week just because like the way it lined up and we we won like seven straight that week and we threw six different starters.
00:11:53.643 --> 00:11:59.048
And I think that's when it started clicking for me like wow, we're, we're actually pretty deep on the mound here that we have a shot.
00:11:59.048 --> 00:12:09.926
But, um, I remember going into that conference tournament and we lost the first game, I actually pretty handedly against York and kind of sitting at home just like man, like what are we doing?
00:12:09.926 --> 00:12:16.051
Like what's going on, and like I actually had to, like I was actually spending some time in prayer of just like is my heart really in the right place?
00:12:16.051 --> 00:12:20.333
We talk about like this is pointing others closer to Christ and closer to Jesus, like I.
00:12:20.333 --> 00:12:21.815
Like I was so worked up about the loss.
00:12:21.815 --> 00:12:25.118
I was like, are we really going to lose again after having a great season and being first in the conference?
00:12:25.118 --> 00:12:36.071
We showed up the next day with our mentality shifting and we ended up winning 11-1 and 10-something I don't know the final scores, but won pretty handedly and moved on.
00:12:36.220 --> 00:12:40.892
Then we got to Randolph-Macon and I think our guys were just genuinely excited.
00:12:40.892 --> 00:12:51.065
Our center fielder we got these laminated pieces of paper that were basically our credentials for the ncaa and you would have thought that he just had, like was given like like 10 million dollars.
00:12:51.065 --> 00:12:56.386
Like he was just so excited, like this is the coolest thing and this is just the attitude of like gratefulness.
00:12:56.386 --> 00:13:09.551
And then we go and we play randolph macon, who was a team that we beat once early in the year, but like they beat us pretty handedly twice in a three-game series and the game we won, like our starting pitcher just was like amazing, we won one, nothing.
00:13:09.551 --> 00:13:13.749
So to go down there and we we play them and we beat them 15, nothing.
00:13:13.788 --> 00:13:21.903
I think that was the first time that was like, oh, wow, like we we might be able to, like, make a little bit more of a run and um.
00:13:21.903 --> 00:13:27.725
Then I think we thought we could and we just every ranked team we played during the course of the season early.
00:13:27.725 --> 00:13:33.009
We felt like we were right in those games and just like something happened late in those games that we ended up losing.
00:13:33.009 --> 00:13:40.681
Like we were up five, nothing to penn state harrisburg in the eighth inning and had a really bad inning and ended up losing eight, six or something.
00:13:40.681 --> 00:13:46.833
And um, salisbury, we spotted him four runs in the first inning and ended up losing 6-1 early in the season.
00:13:46.833 --> 00:13:52.107
And so I think we knew we were right there, but we just couldn't figure out how to win these big games.
00:13:52.107 --> 00:13:59.955
And to be able to see us do that against Randolph-Macon a really good team, I think was an eye-opener for our guys.
00:13:59.955 --> 00:14:03.644
They started to believe and we never looked back from that point.
00:14:04.746 --> 00:14:14.365
What would opposing coaches point to and say this is why Messiah Baseball is so difficult to beat.
00:14:14.384 --> 00:14:21.695
Well, I think just from a standpoint of on the field, some of the things is we can win games in different ways.
00:14:21.695 --> 00:14:29.120
We stole over 160 bases.
00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:35.852
We broke the school record again for home runs this year after breaking it the year before with 60-something, and we were relentless at the plate.
00:14:35.852 --> 00:14:39.543
We get hit by pitches we just scrap out.
00:14:39.543 --> 00:14:44.490
We put a lot of balls in play, our strikeouts are low and then our defense and pitching would win us games.
00:14:44.490 --> 00:14:47.427
So we also would bunt at times.
00:14:47.427 --> 00:14:48.448
There was a time against.
00:14:48.448 --> 00:14:53.489
Like method is where we bought in three straight times and, um, that helped us win a game.
00:14:53.489 --> 00:14:56.724
We stole third with two outs and the catcher over, threw it in the left field and scored.
00:14:56.724 --> 00:15:02.404
Like that was the winning run that scored and or the tying run that scored late in the game, and so I think for us on the field it was that.
00:15:02.465 --> 00:15:13.246
But uh, I think one of the umpires that down the regional said to our third base coach I think this is generally what makes us tough to beat down the stretch was was like he's like.
00:15:13.246 --> 00:15:25.336
I've never seen in my 20 plus years of umpiring a team more unified and selfless and generally like playing for each other than this group and for us to like, buy into that vision of just like.
00:15:25.336 --> 00:15:34.520
It's not about me, um, it's about pointing others closer to Christ and then surrendering surrendering our, our, our hands and the outcomes to him and just going out there and playing free and doing it for each other.
00:15:34.520 --> 00:15:46.153
Um allowed guys to have selfless at bats, allowed guys to walk and allowed guys to bunt and just sell out to that and not feel like they needed to be the hero and just trust the person behind them.
00:15:46.153 --> 00:15:48.688
They knew if they didn't get a hit, the guy behind them was going to.
00:15:49.240 --> 00:15:54.192
And I think that unity, even in the midst of conflict, right.
00:15:54.192 --> 00:16:13.705
There were games that were tight that our catcher would come in like Coach I think we need to make this adjustment or one of our guys would be like Coach we should probably bunt in this situation next time and we were like there's pushback, but we were able to work through that and stay unified through that to make us better through the stretch.
00:16:13.705 --> 00:16:26.874
So, yes, we can win games in different ways, but the unity and the ability just to buy into showing up for each other and the glory of God through everything we do is, I think, that what the umpire said about being the most unified team he's ever seen is, honestly, what allowed us to make that deep run.
00:16:27.799 --> 00:16:31.150
Well, in terms of game strategy, what are your non-negotiables?
00:16:31.150 --> 00:16:33.846
What must your team do?
00:16:33.846 --> 00:16:35.711
Well, to be a consistent winner.
00:16:38.100 --> 00:17:03.035
Yeah, I mean, baseball is such a tricky sport, right, like you can go out and you could literally and this is what I told the guys about how special the run was that we made is, you could literally be the best team in the country the entire year, right, like, not even rankings, but just like, just play the best baseball and and you could lose the first game of the like two games in the regionals and be out because you had two bad games or made two mistakes that cost you the games.
00:17:03.035 --> 00:17:06.479
And but for us it was.
00:17:06.479 --> 00:17:17.768
It was our strategy started to shift from focusing on what the other teams were trying to do to more about doubling down on what we were good at and what we needed to do.
00:17:17.768 --> 00:17:21.477
About doubling down on what we were good at and what we needed to do.
00:17:21.497 --> 00:17:26.876
Um, and for us, like, our offensive strategy was like just being relentless, like, yes, we're going to hit home runs, but we're not going to, we're not going to have bad at bats.
00:17:26.876 --> 00:18:11.729
Like we're going to, we're going to fight, we're going to foul off pitches, we're going to have really good at bats and our shortstop in the world series, um, had a really good at bat and got out, but like it was like a 14 pitch, a bat that stretched the pitcher and made him throw more pitches and, um, like for us, like it was doubling down on what made us successful as an offense and a pitching staff and it was playing good defense, making the simple play, it was being relentless at the plate, not giving away at bats, um, and it was being able to like, throw first pitch strikes and win the one one counts and like those are some of the things, from a strategy standpoint, that allowed us to be successful and um, like for us to go out there and be able to execute those things.
00:18:11.729 --> 00:18:16.071
It wasn't like we had to be perfect, it was just hey, these are the things that we're trying to do well, but it was.
00:18:16.071 --> 00:18:19.460
It was honestly once we stopped focusing on what the other team was doing, trying to do well, but it was.
00:18:19.460 --> 00:18:22.563
It was honestly once we stopped focusing on what the other team was doing, trying to do against us, and just focusing on what made us successful.
00:18:22.583 --> 00:18:49.763
And doubling down on that is that when we actually started to make that run well, you mentioned earlier you talked about, uh, the stolen bases and, uh, I guess just wanted to kind of get an understanding here how do you teach aggressiveness without being reckless, whether it's on the base paths, at the plate or in uh game, game, decision making sure.
00:18:49.784 --> 00:18:58.576
So obviously, with 100 and something 50 something bags like we're not giving a steel sign on every one of this, right, like actually very rarely are we actually telling a guy to steal.
00:18:58.576 --> 00:19:02.442
It's like all in a system that we run, it's what we practice, it's what we do.
00:19:02.442 --> 00:19:03.365
We work on base running.
00:19:03.365 --> 00:19:24.699
I laugh because our base running coach would probably say this isn't true, but we do try to work on it 15 to 20 minutes every practice and there's a stretch where, depending on weather and what we're trying to do that day of practice, that we don't always get it in, but early in the season it's definitely 15 to 20 minutes every day of working on our leads and working our jumps and there's a system that we run through that.
00:19:24.699 --> 00:19:31.403
And I think it's not necessarily the system that makes us great at base stealing, but it's the mentality.
00:19:31.403 --> 00:19:37.262
And for us it's not yelling at guys or getting on them when they get thrown out.
00:19:37.262 --> 00:19:41.625
It's encouraging them to be like hey, tell me what you saw, why did you steal there?
00:19:41.625 --> 00:19:45.928
And if they can give us a really good answer, be like awesome, great, because we know we're going to get thrown out.
00:19:45.928 --> 00:19:49.214
That's part of it, that's part of the running bases.
00:19:49.214 --> 00:20:11.258
But our goal is to be low risk, high reward and our goal is to steal 80% higher and we've successfully done that every year, um, and so when a guy gets thrown out and he had a good jump and it's just a great pitch, a great throw to throw him out on, it's like we celebrate that we, we get excited for them, like, hey, great jump, like that was nothing you did wrong there, and it's it's taking away the fear of getting thrown out.
00:20:11.258 --> 00:20:18.060
I think guys are fearful of getting thrown out, which is why they don't run um and so to teach that we just we throw them on first base and inner squad.
00:20:18.060 --> 00:20:22.176
It's like, all right, you got to steal within the first two pitches and like the pitcher and the catcher know that too.
00:20:22.176 --> 00:20:31.759
So it's taken away that, that fear, like they're just fearful, like if they steal and get thrown out, sometimes we'll just put them right back on first base and it's just, it's creating a mentality.
00:20:31.829 --> 00:20:43.182
And I think that's a lot of baseball is like we look so so much on mechanical stuff or strategy, but the the mental side of just like how do you, how do you take away the fear, how do you take that away?
00:20:43.203 --> 00:20:47.400
Like, and that's one of our main goals is to play with joy and and surrender the results.
00:20:47.400 --> 00:21:10.131
And just go out there and play with joy um, because we're playing for a bigger purpose and that comes with stealing bases is being fearless, like and it was funny because I actually somebody there was a tweet that was put out against hopkins, um, or endicott, at one of the first two games of world series and it was, it said, messiah just stole third with two outs, uh, back-to-back times, and it was like they fear nobody.
00:21:10.131 --> 00:21:16.955
And it was kind of funny because like we were an unranked team and but like that that's our mentality two outs, we don't care, we're stealing third base.
00:21:16.955 --> 00:21:23.416
It's won us more games than it's lost us and they know what type of jumps we're looking for, and so for us that's kind of what that looks like.
00:21:23.890 --> 00:21:29.615
And I think, just telling your guys that, hey, if you do make a mistake you're not going to get pulled.
00:21:29.615 --> 00:21:34.733
They don't have that fear of if I, if I make a mistake, I'm out of the lineup right away too.
00:21:34.733 --> 00:21:39.261
But that's, that's gotta be a positive for the players, I would think.
00:21:44.289 --> 00:21:47.000
Sure, I mean, I will say to you as a job, as a, as a coach, that job's getting tougher the better we get.
00:21:47.000 --> 00:22:19.683
Uh, cause we know we have like, for example, there's a player on our roster, carter Reed, who is going to be like a phenomenal hitter the next two years for us, um, and didn't get to start every game but he he was hitting close to 400 with like four homers and 30 at-bats and just like, and we just our lineup was good enough where he just it was hard to get him in the lineup because of positionally where he played and our 1DH was playing pretty well as a senior and it was just really hard to like have that patience.
00:22:19.683 --> 00:22:23.676
But one of the things that we do try to do is understand that baseball is hard and it is.
00:22:23.676 --> 00:22:37.876
It is a difficult game and there are going to be times where you go oh for four with three k's and a ground out like it just sometimes oh for four with four k's, right, but that doesn't define the type of hitter you're going to be, and so we look at the whole body of work too with that.
00:22:37.957 --> 00:22:53.961
But yeah, I mean it is, one of our goals is to not instill that fear into guys of like hey, you make a mistake, you're gonna get and that's part of that freedom of them going out there freely knowing like hey, like I can play hard and I can try to make a big play, make it be smart about it.
00:22:53.961 --> 00:23:04.704
Like we tell them, like as we get into the playoffs, like teams know we run, so they're gonna try to hold us from running and but our job is already accomplished because they know how much we run.
00:23:04.704 --> 00:23:23.057
So the pitcher is more focused on the base runner than they are executing their pitch, which gives our hitters better pitches to hit, and so at the end of the day, it's a win-win if, even if we don't steal, because pitchers are already worried about us and I think that's that's like the this that they it's not about stealing bases, it's about scoring runs and that's our ultimate goal.
00:23:24.211 --> 00:23:26.519
And success definitely leaves clues, that's for sure.
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:29.895
Well, let me ask you this one here.
00:23:29.895 --> 00:23:33.438
I you know I can't have you on the podcast and not ask this one.
00:23:33.438 --> 00:23:44.884
I guess you probably know this, but you were on the coaching staff for the Savannah Bananas and they are the craze around the country right now.
00:23:44.884 --> 00:24:01.426
What was that like, and can you kind of take us, take the listeners, behind the scenes and kind of share what makes that whole way of playing baseball and having fun with the crowd, what makes that so successful?
00:24:04.814 --> 00:24:09.202
I think this is where people sometimes misinterpret what they're doing.
00:24:09.202 --> 00:24:14.682
Those are phenomenal baseball players that are playing there, really good athletes.
00:24:14.682 --> 00:24:38.757
It was a little different when I was there because it was still part of the Coastal Plains League, so it was still part of a collegiate summer league and um, but they still, the way I kind of described it when I was there was like hey, when you step in between those white lines, like there it's, it's amazing baseball and um, sometimes like the white lines, like when you step in, it was this would kind of blur into that, which would still be like it would free the guys up to just enjoy it and have fun.
00:24:38.757 --> 00:24:47.381
But the way I explained it was like like an entertainment, like a kind of like a circus in a good way, outside of the white lines, where it was just some like fans were having fun.
00:24:47.381 --> 00:24:58.617
The players had fun because of that and when I tell you like it, it was one of the best organizations I've ever been a part of like, uh, jesse and emily cole like just care about the people that work there.
00:24:58.617 --> 00:24:59.358
They care about that.
00:24:59.358 --> 00:25:00.980
They truly do care about the fans.
00:25:00.980 --> 00:25:17.423
Um, and Tyler Gillum, who's the he was the head coach when I was there and um still is the head coach with them like phenomenal baseball mind, like he knows so much about baseball, um, yet like he understands, like this is this is not.
00:25:17.423 --> 00:25:21.557
This is not them trying to replace baseball, this is them trying to continue.
00:25:21.810 --> 00:25:24.098
I would say the Bananas made baseball more popular.
00:25:24.098 --> 00:25:33.740
You're watching the Pirates game yesterday and my son's six years old he was like Dad, are they playing the Bananas?
00:25:33.740 --> 00:25:36.499
Why is there guys wearing the Banana jerseys in the stands?
00:25:36.499 --> 00:25:46.933
And I was like, well, because a lot of people, people like the bananas and um, they're a lot of fun and like I think that's what there's just so much joy with the way they go about what they do.
00:25:46.933 --> 00:25:49.160
Um, that is attractive to people.
00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:54.981
It's about the fans, it's not about the players, and I think sometimes we can lose sight of that, especially in the mlb.
00:25:54.981 --> 00:26:04.298
It's like the only reason there is the mlb is because the fans are watching, or if there's no fans ever paying to watch or go to games, like baseball wouldn't exist.
00:26:04.298 --> 00:26:11.539
And so, um, man, it was just, it was such an awesome experience and, um, still really good baseball.
00:26:11.579 --> 00:26:17.751
But it would be like you would see, like when I was there they call him dancing deegan, but he was a pitcher for Kentucky and he's out there.
00:26:17.751 --> 00:26:20.981
He's dancing like in between innings of a choreographed dance.
00:26:20.981 --> 00:26:27.599
He loved doing it when he wasn't pitching, just getting to see the enjoyment that came from that.
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:30.298
But it truly is geared towards the fans.
00:26:30.298 --> 00:26:33.935
They're so innovative.
00:26:33.935 --> 00:26:35.695
They're never stagnant.
00:26:35.695 --> 00:26:37.517
They're always trying to improve what they do.
00:26:37.517 --> 00:26:41.143
It's not just like, hey, let's just go out there and put on a show.
00:26:41.143 --> 00:26:47.001
They're like, no, let's play really good baseball while we put on a show and give, give the crowd something that's enjoyable to watch.
00:26:47.001 --> 00:26:50.740
And obviously it shows like they're selling out baseball like football stadiums right now.
00:26:50.740 --> 00:26:52.471
And, um, it's.
00:26:52.471 --> 00:26:53.292
It's been really fun.
00:26:53.334 --> 00:27:05.098
I got to take my family um to uh to the game in philadelphia last year and getting to do that like and see that on a bigger scale than even when I was there like a lot bigger scale than when I was there.
00:27:05.098 --> 00:27:34.284
Um, it was just so much fun watching like and then my son's trying to do like backflip catches on the couch and stuff and and I I think people look at that like, oh, it's ruining baseball, but like it's just generally trying like guys having fun and enjoying what they're doing and giving like fans that show up to the game something special to watch and and just kind of like immerse themselves in in in a show, just like whenever you gotta go to the movies, right like you're, you get lost in that movie.
00:27:34.284 --> 00:27:35.289
It's almost like you're in the movie.
00:27:35.289 --> 00:27:42.781
It's like that's the experience that they're trying to create and it's fast paced, uh, it's, there's a lot of action and it's just.
00:27:42.923 --> 00:27:51.304
It's really enjoyable to be a part of now, have you taken anything that while with the bananas that you apply to your team now?
00:27:53.373 --> 00:28:01.678
yeah, I I mean truthfully, like from a from a social media standpoint too is it's we like we try to.
00:28:01.678 --> 00:28:03.857
We have a lot of fun and enjoyment.
00:28:03.857 --> 00:28:24.804
And there was somebody that did research actually on the players that played with the bananas versus what they did with their college teams and like I'm telling you, like they're seeing just as good, if not better, players in this league with wooden bats and yet their stats are better when they play with the bananas than it is when they go and play with their college teams because they and I think some of their research is just like they're having fun, they're enjoying it.
00:28:24.804 --> 00:28:30.262
And the interview I got to do last night with two players like one of the things that like enjoy is one of our pillars.
00:28:30.262 --> 00:28:36.022
Like it is the first pillar of like we want to show up every day and play with joy and enjoy.
00:28:36.022 --> 00:28:39.317
It doesn't mean that we're just going out and rolling the balls out and doing nothing.
00:28:39.317 --> 00:28:47.215
Like it means that we we're we're finding joy in in the work that we put in, but we're also like just loving the fact we get to be around each other.
00:28:47.215 --> 00:28:51.596
We're enjoying the conversations, we're enjoying just the what it.
00:28:51.596 --> 00:28:57.172
What a game, what the game of baseball was meant to be was a game to have fun and enjoy it.
00:28:57.172 --> 00:29:02.815
And we get to utilize that on a bigger stage, like we did this year but also the Bananas do too.
00:29:03.550 --> 00:29:11.539
But like taking that just enjoyment about what we do and just the fun and the environment and giving our guys freedom to be who they are.
00:29:11.539 --> 00:29:34.619
Heck, we went to Raising Cane's before our first game, like the day before when we were out there and they were passing out all these arm sleeves and headbands and next thing you know, all of our guys are rocking, raising Kane's arm sleeves and stuff as they roll onto the field and just because they're a bunch of goofballs that just were okay with being who they were and enjoying it, like they didn't feel like they had to play stiff, like they got to have fun.
00:29:34.619 --> 00:29:42.403
And at the end of every infield outfield that we do, our infield coach hits the last ground ball to our shortstop.
00:29:42.403 --> 00:29:47.962
He fields it between the legs and flips it like backwards to our third baseman who catches it and goes between the legs.
00:29:47.962 --> 00:29:56.582
And they try to nail a trick play at the end of every day we do IO we still did this at the World Series Like this isn't like, just because we're on a bigger stage doesn't mean we're not going to still be who we are.
00:30:01.930 --> 00:30:06.839
And so like giving them that freedom to go out and practice and play and, just honestly, we let them try trick plays during practice.
00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:17.182
At times it's enjoyment and our shortstop actually executed a behind-the-back bounce pass to our second baseman and turned a double play in our alumni game this year, which I have a video of.
00:30:17.182 --> 00:30:17.710
It was awesome.
00:30:17.710 --> 00:30:19.554
But just like.
00:30:19.554 --> 00:30:22.800
Those are the things I think our guys like, why they love being here so much.
00:30:22.800 --> 00:30:26.537
They get to do things for a bigger purpose and glorify god, but they get.
00:30:26.557 --> 00:30:43.384
They get to do it with enjoyment and fun while also working hard and getting better yeah, I, I'm convinced, my best years, when we had the most wins, it seemed like as the teams that had the most fun, and you know that, uh, you know whether it was.
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