Buckeyes D, Browns Struggle and Bengals Lose Burrow + Donnie Nickey on Concussions

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Send us a text Football is a game of inches, but also one of immense physical sacrifice. This becomes starkly clear as former Ohio State national champion and eight-year NFL veteran Donnie Nickey pulls back the curtain on what players endure during and after their careers. The conversation begins with comprehensive coverage of Ohio's football landscape. The Buckeyes roll against Ohio University 37-9, showcasing freshman QB Julian Sayin's impressive 347-yard, 3-touchdown performance. The rece...

Send us a text

Football is a game of inches, but also one of immense physical sacrifice. This becomes starkly clear as former Ohio State national champion and eight-year NFL veteran Donnie Nickey pulls back the curtain on what players endure during and after their careers.

The conversation begins with comprehensive coverage of Ohio's football landscape. The Buckeyes roll against Ohio University 37-9, showcasing freshman QB Julian Sayin's impressive 347-yard, 3-touchdown performance. The receiving corps shines with Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate both exceeding 100 yards, while Bo Jackson demonstrates explosive potential in the running game. Defensive coordinator Matt Patricia earns praise as a "magician with disguises and coverages," confusing quarterbacks and creating turnover opportunities.

Meanwhile, the Bengals secure a late win to improve to 2-0 but lose Joe Burrow for three months to turf toe—a more serious injury than the name suggests. The Browns fall to 0-2 despite statistically outperforming the Ravens in several categories, leaving Myles Garrett visibly frustrated as the team searches for answers.

The most compelling moments come when Nicky shares his personal journey through professional football and beyond. He details the evolution of tackling techniques, helmet technology, and concussion protocols—revealing he wore the same helmet design from 1999-2009 with minimal upgrades. When asked how many concussions he suffered, Nicky responds with haunting clarity: "If a concussion is getting knocked out, I've had two. But if it's seeing stars or having wonky vision, I had hundreds, thousands."

Perhaps most poignant is Nicky's description of post-NFL life: "The struggle was going from having a team my whole life to being on my own." He candidly discusses battling depression, addiction, and cluster headaches while searching for purpose. His current mission involves helping fellow players transition to life after football, emphasizing spiritual foundation and maintaining relationships.

Whether you're a die-hard Ohio football fan or simply concerned about the human cost of America's favorite sport, this episode offers rare insight into the game beyond statistics and highlights. Subscribe now for weekly coverage that explores every angle of Ohio football—from celebrated victories to the quiet struggles that follow when the stadium lights go dark.

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Chapters

00:00 - Ohio Football Weekend Recap

00:46 - Welcome to the SOB Podcast

01:53 - Ohio State Dominates Ohio University

05:20 - Special Teams Impact Discussion

09:37 - Bengals Win Despite Burrow Injury

18:39 - Browns' Struggles and Challenges

33:14 - NFL Concussions and Player Safety

43:01 - Life After Football: Finding Purpose

53:08 - Wrapping Up Ohio Football Coverage

Transcript

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Today on the SOB, the Buckeyes roll against Ohio University and have two weeks to prepare for their first Big Ten opponent, the Washington Huskies.

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Cincinnati Bengals win late and improve to 2-0 but lose quarterback Joe Burrow for three months to a turf-toe injury.

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And the Cleveland Browns fall to 0-2 and Miles Garrett is not happy and the Browns are searching for answers.

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Finally, former Buckeye national champion and Tennessee Titan Donnie Nicky joins the show to discuss all three teams and share what NFL players deal with during and after their career.

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Next on Scarlet, orange and Brown Welcome to the Scarlet Orange Brown.

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Welcome to the Scarlet Orange Brown podcast, the show that brings you the best of Ohio football every single week, from the Ohio State Buckeyes to the Cincinnati Bengals to the Cleveland Browns.

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We've got every inch of the Buckeye State covered Insight, passion and plenty of bold opinions.

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Because here it's all football, all Ohio All the time.

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Here's your hosts coming to you live from the Dublin bubble Chris Huseman and Ken Carpenter.

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Hello and welcome to the SOB podcast Scarlet, orange and Brown.

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I'm Coach.

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Ken Carpenter I'm Coach.

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Ken Carpenter, I'm Chris Huseman and I'd like to introduce the special guest that we have today in the studio, donnie Mickey.

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Donnie was a former player for the Ohio State Buckeyes, former captain, former captain for the Tennessee Titans, played eight years in the NFL and played for me out at Jonathan Alder playing in City Ohio.

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And welcome to the show, donnie.

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Yeah, guys, thanks for having me on, I really appreciate it.

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All three teams in action Ohio State, Cincinnati and Cleveland and I guess, starting off with Ohio State, they come away with a 37-9 win over the Bobcats out of Ohio University.

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I guess the positives is Jeremiah Smith, Carnell Tate, over 100 yards and Bo Jackson I think he had 100-plus yards and minimal carries, and to me, I thought it was a great game for Julian, saying he had 347 yards, 3D TDs and two picks.

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What are your thoughts, chris?

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Well, a couple of things I think you had on it there too as well.

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I mean Julian saying as selling right into what we were hoping that he would be.

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Um, I just saw a stat yesterday that he is in the top three in the nation in yards per game, quarterback rating and completion percentage.

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So in my book that's pretty good.

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We didn't skip a beat when it comes to Julian Sane and that's exactly what the doctor had ordered for the Buckeyes.

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I'm right with you, kenny, on Bo Jackson.

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Um, you know, neither Donaldson nor peoples have really shown, uh, the vision or explosiveness uh needed to elevate this rushing attack for the Buckeyes.

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Um, but, um, you know, I think he brings elite speed, um brings some great vision.

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When it comes to those things.

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I think Brian Hartline needs to improve just a little bit on the play calling Struggled just a little bit.

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At times we got bogged down on a few things, but that's just being nitpicky as well.

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But you know, overall I like the look of the Buckeyes.

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I think Sands is going to be special, I think the defense is elite and you know, I just need, I think, once we find that cohesion between the ground game and the passing game, then you know we're really going to take off Pretty much be unstoppable.

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Donnie, your feelings on it.

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Man, I think it was domination.

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Ohio played really well to begin and we just adjusted really well.

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I think, yeah, like you said about Hartline kind of getting the reins and getting into a rhythm of play calling like that'll be a work in progress.

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I think he's only going to get better as the season goes on.

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And on defense, I mean I think the sky's the limit for this defense and Matt Patricia, the magician with the skies and coverages and causing confusion and really putting on the quarterback and pressuring the quarterback to make decisions, because I mean, any good coordinator has a philosophy of you cut the head off a snake.

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I mean it's a lot easier to get the snake dead.

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I mean that's the reason for all the confusion is to really confuse the quarterback and put them in positions to give you quick turnovers and easy picks.

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Donnie this early in the season as a former player, do the offensive and defensive coordinators do?

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They sometimes play pretty vanilla because they don't want to show a whole lot what's going to happen when they start big 10 play.

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Yeah, I mean, I think more so on the offense.

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I think offensively you're going to hide some looks and things that you've got planned for down the road.

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Defensively too, you could do that, but there'll be different packages.

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I think what Matt Patricia is doing is really installing a universal defense and see everything that we can do, our skill set, and then pare it down each week and call different defenses.

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So it's never going to be the same look twice.

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It'll never be pigeonholed as a cover.

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Two team or a bend-don't-break team or an attack team hold as a cover two team or a bend don't break team or an attack team.

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It's, it's always, always, uh, always changing it up and making it hard to call plays against.

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And because those things, those things when you, when you think it's you, when you think you're getting a blitz and everybody bells out and then you throw an easy pitch and the quarterbacks just get, get real frustrated.

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So I mean I don't think, I don't think we're seeing, I think it'll see it.

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It'll be an evolution all season of of defenses and play calling, offensively and defensively.

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But I think it's only going to get better from here a couple things too, donnie, I was I was looking at too as well In your experience being a captain making a living too on special teams.

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How do the special teams really boat up for Ohio State this year in your opinion?

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I think they're doing well.

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I think we've got the athletes to win games on special teams, especially the Ohio State, like block and punts.

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Block punts are 14-point swings and I mean those are big plays and traditionally you get everybody involved.

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So you've got the backups usually that are playing special teams and we've got the athletes to really make a difference in special teams and that's how you get your chance to get on the field is through special teams.

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You play so well on special teams that you're like, hey, we got it.

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This guy had seven tackles on special teams.

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He's got to go in the game and so it's motivating for the young guys to get out there.

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But I think they're getting better and we'll see some more returns.

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We'll see some big plays on special teams is what it's looking like.

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I think they're doing a good job.

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The coaches are doing a good job of making it matter, making it a third of the game, because it's one third of the game.

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You say there's three phases of football, but everybody's going to the bathroom when you're sticking the ball.

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It's only one play at a time and you don't get another chance.

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So if you have a great play on special teams, you're happy, but if you don't, you get one chance and then you don't, you get one chance and then you don't get another chance, to make another play for another, at least at the most four more plays to get another chance to go out there.

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So I think we're headed in a good direction.

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Special teams-wise for the Buckeyes.

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Well, as a special teams player yourself when you were with the Titans, talk a little bit about the mentality that goes into being on the special teams and running down on a kickoff.

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Yeah, yeah, man, it was something I had to get better at.

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So we would.

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I made the team for the Titans.

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I figured out that my way on the team was to hit the wedge.

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We used to have a wedge where it would be four offensive defensive linemen all together and we'd send two guys, one to hit the two on the right, one to hit the two on the left and, man, I'd have to look at the other guys the other guy's name was Brad Castle from North Texas and we would just go like this and turn your brain off.

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So you say, turn your brain off, and we'd go let's go like this and click our brain off and then just go hit that wedge.

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But it was easy to do the first kickoff of the game.

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But, man, after you get a high scoring game, or you're up a lot or you're down a lot, man, you got to really be mentally tough to go do that again and again.

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It takes a lot of pride and discipline and practice to get through the wincing, because I mean, it's like a car wreck.

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So you're hitting that wedge, man, you got to have a few screws loose, but you got to want to do that.

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You got to really want to do that and understand that that is your role, because as you take those two blockers, somebody's free and they're going to make the tackle.

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So it's just the mindset of intensity, willingness and then doing it for each other and doing your part for your teammates.

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You know, one thing I noticed too was, you know, when we go out here in a couple weeks and we play at Washington just absolute gorgeous, you know place to play uh too as well it's going to be a tough environment out there and I think special teams, uh, kicking game I've been really impressed with Fielding Um, he's been really good as far as kicking the football, um and um, I think special teams is just going to be that extra difference when we go out and play somebody like University of Washington out in Washington.

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So you know for what that's worth.

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I totally agree with you.

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Yeah, I mean it's any given game Like it's a stalemate on offense and defense, but man, a special teams play is going to be all the difference.

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So it's bound to happen and I'm excited to see it happen.

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More like the kickoff rules Now they've kind of, basically in the NFL and college have eliminated kickoff returns for the most part.

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There's some in, there's very few, but it's not as intensive as it used to be.

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So the but the punt game is is where we can.

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We can I mean we got close to a few of those, uh, last week and I mean we're just going to get better and make bigger plays on it.

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But yeah, the bigger environments, the more um importance the each snap is, and especially the kicking game is going to matter and we'll win a game on special teams for sure as a wedge buster were there.

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Is there a game or two that stands out in your mind where you went down and you're like, oh my god, I don't believe I just got hit that hard man um, yeah, a few games against the patriots.

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I remember, uh, in the patriots we were playing the patri Patriots and I hit the wedge and man I remember Vrabel actually came out and was like hey, man, you okay, and like I was going to the wrong sideline.

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He's like man, you're going to get back over there.

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He like pushed me over, backed over there.

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It was in the preseason actually and I mean I was just, I was seeing stars and but like every game, so it was every game thing I had to get my, I had to get my mind right to do that.

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There's techniques too, because you're not always going to lead with your head.

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I mean you gotta, you gotta have good leverage, but I mean you gotta go.

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There's no, there's no getting around that car wreck, it's gonna bother happen.

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Yes, without a doubt.

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I could only imagine what that would be like at the NFL level.

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Okay, donnie, one thing I wanted to ask you too was like when you get these idle weeks or bye weeks so-called bye weeks, you know, right in the middle of your schedule.

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I mean, what's that like for an athlete, you know?

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Do you go?

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You concentrate more on class, or is that?

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You know, what's the practice like?

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Or is it a heavy lifting week?

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You know, what does that look like at Ohio State?

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Man, well, it's going to be a, it's going to be a chance to to get healed up.

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So you're going to recover, use that week to recover and then use that as a week to game plan for the next opponent.

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So you get two weeks basically to get ready for that next opponent but also to get healthy and guys that are dinged up have a chance to get some rest, get extra treatment and then also evaluate some younger guys.

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Get some younger guys, some reps, um, and kind of kind of see what you want to go.

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But it's, it's really valuable.

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Um, every season I mean it's long season, especially in the nfl man you're playing 20 games.

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Um, that bi-week is vital and how you use that bi-week really can determine how the rest of your season goes.

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It's a good, a good pivot point.

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If you're having, if you're having a terrible season, you can pivot and really rebound and come out the gates and finish strong.

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Or if you're having a strong season, it's to continue get healthy and really finish strong and healthy.

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Last season.

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Well, to transition to the Cincinnati Bengals, they went and came out with a late win this past weekend, but the big story coming out of it is Joe Burrow.

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He's lost for three months.

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Huey, I guess.

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To start off, I got to ask is Joe Burrow injured from?

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Well, you know, I looked at a stat yesterday and it was through 71 games, Andrew Luck was sacked 157 times and Joe Burrow was sacked 201.

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Now you know Andrew Luck and the whole situation.

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He was just like you know smart guy, went to Stanford and was like you know what.

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I'm not giving my body up to science, so to speak, and you know I'm going to leave with all my faculties because if this is the NFL, you can have it, and I just don't want Joe Burrow to maybe get in that situation.

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I think we paid all this money to give him weapons around him and maybe didn't invest enough in the offensive line.

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But some of those sacks that Joe took was on Joe, I mean just watching Baker Mayfield scramble around.

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I mean, not too many times you're going to see Baker Mayfield just drop straight back on the five-step drop and look at the passing tree one, two, three, four.

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Oh, there's my fifth receiver.

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By then it's too late.

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So I think what they can do with them is maybe put him back a little further and maybe do a two or three step drop and then get rid of the ball.

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If it's not there, throw it away.

00:16:31.702 --> 00:16:35.509
Um, so I don't know.

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You know you, Shamar?

00:16:36.850 --> 00:16:39.221
Um, Stuart hurt his leg.

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You know this is nothing new for a Cincinnati Bengals fan.

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I mean, this is his third one here at his wrist, you know.

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And then the MCL ACL um, you know, now we're looking at, um, you know, quarterbacks to bring in.

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We got Brett Ripien from Vikings and Mike White from the Jets and Sean Clifford from the Packers coming in and you know, people are talking about bringing back the red rifle.

00:17:03.948 --> 00:17:08.123
Andy Dalton, Um, you know, are talking about bringing back the red rifle, anti-dalton?

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Um, you know, I mean, it's just one of those things, uh.

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But you know, the quarterback that we have now, uh, the backup has been proven time and time again.

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And he?

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Uh, every show that I've watched over the past week, uh, or the past couple of days, rather, I should say um, has they, everybody's just written the Bengals off.

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Uh, CVS dropped us down to 15 on the power rankings, Um, even though we're two, and oh and yeah, everybody's pretty much written us off.

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So you know, in in my world it's nothing new for a bingles fan.

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I mean, that's just what we have to do and have to go through, um, but you know, I'm just hoping that, uh, we can continue on um minnesota's hurt, um jj mccarthy's out.

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Uh, they're running back.

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Jones is out, so who knows, it could be a game.

00:18:08.099 --> 00:18:14.289
Donnie, let me ask you when you're on a team like that and you lose a star quarterback of his caliber, how does that affect the rest of the team?

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I mean it's a part of the game.

00:18:17.567 --> 00:18:19.508
I mean you're going to get injured.

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Everybody gets injured.

00:18:20.865 --> 00:18:33.403
It's not if it's when gets injured, it's not if it's when.

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Um, steve mcnerr was the quarterback, uh, mvp in 2003, co-mvp in 2003.

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He gets hurt.

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2004.

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Billy vola comes in, throws for 300 yards three games in a row.

00:18:38.694 --> 00:18:42.525
So and we, I mean we struggled that year, but but it never.

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It's always the next man up.

00:18:44.669 --> 00:18:47.835
It doesn't change how the whole team prepares.

00:18:47.835 --> 00:18:53.890
Everybody prepares to win and then backups are backups.

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For a reason they're not quite as good, but occasionally you will have a backup that outplays their potentials or plays to their potential, to their potential, and it's next man up and they succeed and you guys win.

00:19:08.282 --> 00:19:15.205
So you, you can get by, you can get by a few games, but and it'll be three months, that's that's.

00:19:15.205 --> 00:19:17.211
That's unfortunate that it's that long.

00:19:17.211 --> 00:19:18.635
I mean it's turf toe.

00:19:18.635 --> 00:19:25.267
That's a terrible injury, though it's not really turf toe makes it sound minimized, like it's just his toe hurts, but it's his whole foot.

00:19:25.267 --> 00:19:36.375
Um, he's gonna have to have surgery and I mean you always want, you always want to put your best foot forward and the bangles are gonna find.

00:19:36.394 --> 00:19:40.423
I mean, jake browning is the backup and we're looking for extra guys.

00:19:40.423 --> 00:19:44.788
But this is jake browning's time to shine, time to go.

00:19:44.788 --> 00:19:52.946
So I hope he does the best that he can and prepares, and I'm sure he's going to.

00:19:52.946 --> 00:20:12.904
But I think the Bengals will do better than we think without Joe Burrow I mean, joe Burrow is such a generational talent it's not going to be as good, but we can step up on the defense, step up on special teams and really do our best.

00:20:12.904 --> 00:20:16.469
Everybody can do their best to get that win each week.

00:20:16.469 --> 00:20:17.372
It'll be hard.

00:20:19.201 --> 00:20:26.849
The pressure really ratchets up for the defense because with Joe, you're thinking you know it's going to be a basketball score.

00:20:26.849 --> 00:20:29.345
Every time he steps out on the field with the receivers he has.

00:20:29.345 --> 00:20:32.867
What's your take on their defense so far?

00:20:34.540 --> 00:20:36.410
Yeah, you took the words right out of my mouth, kenny.

00:20:36.410 --> 00:20:45.567
You know that puts the onus on the defense and you know as good as a game that we had now Golden called against the Browns.

00:20:45.567 --> 00:20:49.510
I didn't really see that against the Jaguars.

00:20:49.510 --> 00:21:01.130
You know, I thought we didn't pressure Trevor Lawrence enough in the first three quarters and then we finally started bringing pressure.

00:21:01.130 --> 00:21:04.066
And I mean, you know, lawrence, what?

00:21:04.066 --> 00:21:05.510
He threw three picks, I think.

00:21:05.510 --> 00:21:11.772
So I think we need to adopt the philosophy of hey, what do we want to do?

00:21:11.772 --> 00:21:22.593
Let's either just get after it and start blitzing people and make people make plays, especially when you're talking about Carson Wentz, who's the backup in Minnesota.

00:21:22.593 --> 00:21:38.068
So you know, I think we need to put a ton of pressure on him, make him move, get out of the pocket, feel uncomfortable and you know, I think we have the defensive backs to do that and I think Trey Hendrickson's enough of a one-man wrecking crew that you know he can keep things in check.

00:21:40.784 --> 00:21:43.980
Would you trade for Joe Flacco?

00:21:48.653 --> 00:21:50.439
Would you trade for Joe Flacco?

00:21:50.439 --> 00:21:55.912
I would trade for Stuart, maybe even Dylan Gabriel.

00:21:57.380 --> 00:22:08.402
Oh you're saying Shador Sanders, yeah, or Shador Sanders Sorry, yes, or maybe even Gabriel from Oregon yeah, I would do that, you know.

00:22:08.402 --> 00:22:10.925
I mean you got three quarterbacks sitting there.

00:22:10.925 --> 00:22:11.946
I mean they're all healthy.

00:22:11.946 --> 00:22:16.133
I mean, you know, in my opinion, you know it's not Joe Flacco's fault.

00:22:16.133 --> 00:22:24.000
I mean, look at Browns, no-transcript.

00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:28.592
I mean offense is you know, and even the defense is you know.

00:22:28.592 --> 00:22:36.926
There it's just sometimes to me it's the Browns being the Browns, and you know I've got some stats that I want to throw out when we turn over to the Browns here.

00:22:36.926 --> 00:22:39.728
But you know, it's just remarkable.

00:22:39.728 --> 00:22:40.770
But that's a good question.

00:22:42.500 --> 00:22:50.228
Well, their offense, obviously for the Browns, they're just not scoring enough points and you know, I think that's a big issue.

00:22:50.228 --> 00:23:06.111
O-line's struggling a little bit and I think the wide receiver room and the running backs are average for the NFL and I just don't know how you're going to put more points on the board.

00:23:06.111 --> 00:23:08.548
They were the lowest scoring offense last year.

00:23:08.548 --> 00:23:12.069
In their last 21 games they're 3-18.

00:23:12.069 --> 00:23:15.449
Donnie, what do you do to fix the Browns?

00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:25.468
Man, you really got to really reset and it comes down to having a culture of winning and, man, that culture is not there.

00:23:25.468 --> 00:23:27.343
So how do you build?

00:23:27.343 --> 00:23:28.366
How do you build that?

00:23:28.366 --> 00:23:37.813
Well, you do it by creating an atmosphere, creating a, an environment of competition, um, camaraderie.

00:23:37.813 --> 00:23:41.269
You got to get the guys close so they're playing for each other.

00:23:41.269 --> 00:23:49.984
And it's hard to do that in nfl locker room because everybody's getting paid, especially with the dynamics of Shigeru and Dylan and all that drama.

00:23:49.984 --> 00:23:53.213
Getting that dynamic to go.

00:23:53.253 --> 00:23:58.606
But I mean, to compete every day and get a little better every day is what you got to do.

00:23:58.606 --> 00:24:01.553
And then you got to execute on Sundays.

00:24:01.553 --> 00:24:03.744
I mean it doesn't matter what you do in practice.

00:24:03.744 --> 00:24:09.981
If you don't do it on Sundays and you usually play like you practice, you do play like you practice.

00:24:09.981 --> 00:24:14.916
So carry that, it'll carry on and it's there.

00:24:14.916 --> 00:24:30.865
If they're practicing and making those plays and really improving every day and and having a good attitude and listing each other up and having a positive environment or it could be a toxic environment and then that's not going to work, then they're going to go backslide.

00:24:30.865 --> 00:24:37.810
But if they got those things going, they're going to get better and they're going to start executing and scoring points on Sundays.

00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:50.537
You know, one thing I think to just I mean to give the Browns a little bit of credit is, you know, really the NFL schedule didn't really pay them any, um, any favors.

00:24:50.537 --> 00:25:05.042
Um, I mean, when you start out with two games in the AFC North, um, you're bringing in a high powered offense like Cincinnati, uh, who has been, you know, uh, threatening Zach Taylor's job if they don't get off to a good start.

00:25:05.042 --> 00:25:13.929
Um, and then, oh, by the way, you get rewarded by going to Baltimore and playing against Lamar Jackson, and it doesn't really get any easier for them.

00:25:13.929 --> 00:25:21.400
I mean, I think they got what Green Bay coming up at home this week, who's debatably the number one, number two team in the power ranking.

00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:26.172
So it's just a tough road to hoe right now.

00:25:26.500 --> 00:25:30.150
And some of these stats I wanted to throw out at you guys and see what your thoughts were.

00:25:30.150 --> 00:25:36.951
You know they helped Derek Henry at 23 yards, lamar Jackson, two rushes, 13 yards.

00:25:36.951 --> 00:25:43.268
Um, they ran 15 more plays and out gained the Ravens by 80 yards.

00:25:43.268 --> 00:25:51.429
Um, they um connected four more uh third down conversions than the Ravens.

00:25:51.429 --> 00:25:53.653
They lost by 24.

00:25:55.461 --> 00:25:57.426
A couple of the other ones that I thought was interesting.

00:25:57.426 --> 00:26:10.756
I did a deeper dive into that the yards per catch was the Browns 5.23 and the Ravens 2.14, and you got guys on there like Mark Andrews, zay Flowers, all kinds of people.

00:26:10.756 --> 00:26:22.799
Third down conversions we kind of talked about, but 7 of 18 for the Browns, which is not good, but they held the Ravens to 3 out of 12 on third down conversions.

00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:30.403
And then the rushing yards they outrushed the Ravens by 25 yards so and still losing by 24.

00:26:30.403 --> 00:26:31.263
I mean you got.

00:26:31.263 --> 00:26:34.448
And then the rushing yards they outrushed the Ravens by 25 yards and still losing by 24.

00:26:34.448 --> 00:26:46.528
I mean you've got to think that's either special teams which I think, kenny, you're going to talk about a little bit on that and just how important they were in those two games really, I mean the two missed kicks versus the Bengals, and then, kenny, you can take it from here.

00:26:47.700 --> 00:26:55.252
Well, I mean the you know special teams like Donnie likes to talk about the the up back there that's supposed to protect the punter.

00:26:55.252 --> 00:27:03.413
He just gets blown up, I mean he gets depleted, and I I don't understand how that happens.

00:27:03.413 --> 00:27:16.962
When you're in that position, yes, I know the guy's got a running start, but 99 times out of 100 you see that guy hold his ground, or at least back up just a little bit, but to be totally put on your back.

00:27:16.962 --> 00:27:18.968
I mean that tells me you're not prepared.

00:27:18.968 --> 00:27:20.611
And what?

00:27:20.611 --> 00:27:22.961
What do you say to that donnie, when you're?

00:27:22.961 --> 00:27:26.425
You're the, the guy that's basically protecting the punter.

00:27:28.508 --> 00:27:29.970
Man, you got to go, cut the guy.

00:27:29.970 --> 00:27:35.276
You cannot get run over, you can't get pushed back into the punter, you can't give any ground.

00:27:35.276 --> 00:27:41.051
So if you're going against a guy that's bigger than you or more powerful than you, you just go at his leg, you cut him.

00:27:41.051 --> 00:27:48.073
And I mean sometimes in the moment it's hard to decide what to do.

00:27:48.073 --> 00:27:53.670
But you have to stand your ground and when it's a bigger guy I just cut him.

00:27:53.670 --> 00:28:00.407
Just cut him, cut his legs or cut the whole pile, make a whole pile, as long as they don't get back to the punter.

00:28:01.560 --> 00:28:09.150
I've played on the edge and the wing and the personal protector and there's a little bit it's kind of the same thing but it's more.

00:28:09.150 --> 00:28:13.368
There's more angles on the edge but the personal protector at direct line.

00:28:13.368 --> 00:28:14.865
So nothing can get up.

00:28:14.865 --> 00:28:24.607
And usually, usually you're making a call to the center, the long snapper, to block one a gap, and you got the other, the personal protector, out of the other a gap.

00:28:24.607 --> 00:28:27.269
So you're both just stuffing those a gaps.

00:28:27.269 --> 00:28:31.028
Personal protector out of the other a gap, so you're both just stuffing those a gaps.

00:28:31.028 --> 00:28:37.828
And if it's somebody bigger or stronger or they, they try to sneak or twist too and you just got to make a pile, it's just got to be a a thing and that'll.

00:28:37.828 --> 00:28:38.972
That'll get corrected.

00:28:38.972 --> 00:28:42.762
I'm sure um, that personal protector will get it corrected.

00:28:42.762 --> 00:28:52.672
But, man you, there's nothing worse than giving up somebody or being responsible for the punt getting blocked.

00:28:52.672 --> 00:28:54.006
That's the worst feeling there is.

00:28:54.006 --> 00:28:59.246
But that's what they're there for, that's what practice is for.

00:29:02.787 --> 00:29:04.230
We had a game recently, donnie too.

00:29:04.230 --> 00:29:06.526
I forget which game it was.

00:29:06.526 --> 00:29:16.567
I had so many games going through my head but they made contact with the center or the long snap, and it was a leverage play.

00:29:16.567 --> 00:29:26.069
I think it was the Broncos game and they called leverage and they had to move the ball back and retry the field goal.

00:29:26.069 --> 00:29:27.926
But talk a little bit about too.

00:29:27.926 --> 00:29:31.631
I mean, what can you and cannot do with the long snap?

00:29:33.501 --> 00:29:43.145
So you can't leverage off it, so you can't use the center or another line to propel yourself up to block a kick.

00:29:43.145 --> 00:29:49.307
You can jump over it, but you can't have any contact with anybody after you jump.

00:29:49.307 --> 00:29:56.650
So it's kind of hard asking somebody to jump up and kick it or jump because you gotta jump to block the kick.

00:29:56.650 --> 00:30:00.500
But as soon as you touch that kicker it's leveraging.

00:30:00.500 --> 00:30:17.561
It's a weird rule and it's kind of hard to navigate, but it's just for player safety and so guys aren't just jumping off the helmet of the center of the long snapper to block the gate one thing, any, I wanted to ask too.

00:30:17.642 --> 00:30:31.788
One thing about this too was you know it dawned on me last night watching these games, um, on monday night football, you know I'm seeing Baker Mayfield, you know, just lead a game-winning drive.

00:30:31.788 --> 00:30:38.993
This would not accept losing that game last night and what he did.

00:30:38.993 --> 00:30:42.953
And then, you know, you flip it over on the other one.

00:30:42.953 --> 00:30:45.819
You see Nick Chubb, you know, going for a game-winning touchdown.

00:30:45.819 --> 00:30:47.461
You see Nick Chubb, you know, going for a game-winning touchdown.

00:30:47.461 --> 00:30:56.431
You know what's that say you know to a Browns fan and what's that say you know to, you know, are the decision-making they're making at the front office.

00:30:57.131 --> 00:30:58.692
Well, I think you know you're looking at.

00:30:58.692 --> 00:31:14.751
I think when Baker was there last year they went 8-9, 9-8, somewhere like that, and they basically said you know that's not good enough, but I think Browns fans would probably take that now and there's probably a lot of Browns fans that would love to have Baker Mayfield back.

00:31:14.751 --> 00:31:25.343
And you know something I had written down that I wanted to ask you guys put on your GM hat To me.

00:31:25.343 --> 00:31:30.365
There's no legit, clear number one quarterback coming out of college next year.

00:31:30.365 --> 00:31:33.172
Who, what do you do?

00:31:33.172 --> 00:31:34.806
What do you do if you're the Browns?

00:31:34.806 --> 00:31:47.611
Do you take Miles Garrett and trade him and get as much as you can, or kind of like how the Cowboys did with trading away their star player Michael Parsons?

00:31:47.611 --> 00:31:57.384
Or do you just turn it over to Dylan Gabriel and Shador and say let's see what's going to happen, because you know it's not going to be Joe Flacco next year?

00:31:58.490 --> 00:32:07.411
Yeah, well, I mean I think at some point in the season the young guys get a chance to go and we'll have a little bit more knowledge of what they can do.

00:32:07.411 --> 00:32:10.270
And I think I mean Dylan will come in and he'll have a little bit more knowledge of what they can do.

00:32:10.270 --> 00:32:27.950
And I think I mean Dillon will come in and he'll play some and then Shadur will have his chance and we'll see who really can play in the NFL, because preseason is nothing like regular season and until he has that experience we're not going to know.

00:32:27.950 --> 00:32:29.867
So it's going to take some time.

00:32:29.867 --> 00:32:35.266
I think at some point we'll see both of them play, and not that I hope Joe, joe, flacco gets hurt.

00:32:35.266 --> 00:32:43.333
But I just think if we continue, or the Browns continue, to struggle, they're going to make some changes and evaluate these guys just to get a spark.

00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:46.044
Um cause the.

00:32:46.044 --> 00:32:50.634
The quarterback is the most important position in sports.

00:32:50.634 --> 00:32:57.374
I mean he's got the most leadership and the most effect of any position on any team, any sport.

00:32:57.374 --> 00:33:27.761
It really does motivate the rest of the team when a quarterback is a competitor and is able to get first downs and score and make plays that you don't think he's going to make or that other guys don't make, like toughness, mental toughness, physical toughness, vocal leadership, animation and winning games and production Production is the bottom line.

00:33:27.761 --> 00:33:36.173
Animation and winning games and production Production is the bottom line, so the one that produces will be the one that wins and he'll get the job eventually.

00:33:36.173 --> 00:33:37.075
We'll see.

00:33:40.539 --> 00:33:42.087
Donnie, I just kind of want to piggyback that too.

00:33:42.087 --> 00:33:45.868
What Kenny said was you know, you look at the style of quarterbacks in the AFC North.

00:33:45.868 --> 00:33:47.967
I mean you've got Aaron Rodgers, who's dropped back.

00:33:47.967 --> 00:33:55.586
You've got Joe Burrow, who's dropped back but could scramble if he needed to and would be effective.

00:33:55.586 --> 00:34:00.791
You got Lamar Jackson, who can drop back, throw and run.

00:34:00.791 --> 00:34:04.691
That's probably why they're so effective too as well.

00:34:04.691 --> 00:34:06.748
And then Joe Flacco is a straight drop back.

00:34:06.748 --> 00:34:09.567
Stafford drop back.

00:34:09.567 --> 00:34:13.385
A lot of these good quarterbacks.

00:34:13.385 --> 00:34:26.811
I don't see a lot of these quarterbacks that are just run-oriented quarterbacks, that are just really, really.

00:34:26.811 --> 00:34:30.664
Patrick Mahomes he'll run if he has to and he does a really good job.

00:34:30.664 --> 00:34:42.586
But when you played, like when you were defensive back, and you played defensive back and strong safety, free safety in the NFL, I mean, what gave you more fits?

00:34:42.586 --> 00:34:48.152
Just that prototypical drop back passer or that guy that was just like I'm antsy in the pocket.

00:34:48.152 --> 00:34:49.284
I got to take off and run.

00:34:50.382 --> 00:34:58.599
Man, the guys that can do both, guys like Lamar, are a problem Because you, I mean like playing against Peyton Manning.

00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:08.172
We played against Peyton Manning twice a year in my entire career and, man, you knew he was going to be be.

00:35:08.172 --> 00:35:12.304
They only ran a few plays but he called and he called every play at the line.

00:35:12.304 --> 00:35:16.181
So, um, you knew he wasn't going to beat you with your legs, so you could.

00:35:16.181 --> 00:35:22.460
You knew he like, if you could force him to to get off the spot and hurry him up, then you had a chance.

00:35:22.460 --> 00:35:25.947
But you just had to be, make sure, disguise your coverage.

00:35:25.947 --> 00:35:26.907
So it's just different.

00:35:27.509 --> 00:35:35.449
But a guy that can run the ball, it's kind of off-schedule stuff, like man, like off-schedule to me.

00:35:35.449 --> 00:35:40.530
I think of Ben Roethlisberger, steve Maynard, ben Roethlisberger, guys that were hard to take down.

00:35:40.530 --> 00:35:47.829
So you could get to him but you weren't going to tackle him before he could throw the ball and you can only cover, you the tackle on before he could throw the ball and you can only cover.

00:35:47.829 --> 00:35:51.391
You can't cover for six, ten seconds, you can't cover the whole play, the whole down.

00:35:51.391 --> 00:35:53.833
So at some point somebody can get open.

00:35:53.833 --> 00:36:00.061
When a guy can extend the play with his legs, you're not going to be able to cover as long as he's going to be able to run.

00:36:00.121 --> 00:36:02.405
So there's a lot more off schedule stuff.

00:36:02.405 --> 00:36:05.349
So there's it's preparing differently.

00:36:05.349 --> 00:36:25.610
You use a spy a lot for guys that can run and you got to be careful blitzing guys that can run, because if they recognize it they can just go right where the blitzer came from or throw right to where the blitzer, the blitz came from and get a big play on you, just like Daniel Jung's been doing for the Colts.

00:36:25.610 --> 00:36:27.481
They blitz.

00:36:27.481 --> 00:36:35.387
They blitz him like 70% of the play and then he just pulled him up because he was throwing into the blitz and anticipating that.

00:36:35.387 --> 00:36:44.429
So he prepared like the ones that are most difficult to prepare for are the ones that prepare for you the most.

00:36:44.940 --> 00:36:59.222
Well, if we could, you know we we would talk about your experience as an nfl player and some of the stuff that you went through and you obviously talking earlier about, uh, running down and hitting on the wedge.

00:36:59.222 --> 00:37:08.952
How would be a player that played eight years in the nfl, when I think the average nfl player is maybe two or three?

00:37:08.952 --> 00:37:14.628
How has that affected you with your health after you've walked away from the game?

00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:17.061
Man.

00:37:17.061 --> 00:37:19.835
So I retired in 2010.

00:37:19.835 --> 00:37:22.887
And man, I had.

00:37:22.887 --> 00:37:27.688
It's been a rough transition, it's really been a journey.

00:37:27.688 --> 00:37:34.833
So as soon as I stopped playing, I had I'd get headaches about uh, about once a month I would get these.

00:37:34.833 --> 00:37:36.929
These things called cluster headaches.

00:37:36.929 --> 00:37:41.485
It was like, uh, and it's somebody stabbing an ice pick in the back of your eye on one side or the other.

00:37:41.485 --> 00:37:43.530
It would last about 12 hours.

00:37:43.530 --> 00:37:54.702
I get nauseous, hours I get nauseous, was having those frequently.

00:37:54.702 --> 00:38:10.974
So I got to a neurologist and um did some testing and stuff and got my neurotransmitter levels checked and um did some, did some medications to kind of compensate for neurotransmitter levels being low but really developing.

00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:15.643
The biggest thing was I didn't have a team.

00:38:15.643 --> 00:38:32.541
So the struggle was that I went from having a team my whole life to being on my own and not having a team, not having the leadership to follow and the teammates to encourage and be encouraged by.

00:38:32.541 --> 00:38:39.702
So I've really and it's really really comes down to a spiritual foundation and and building a spiritual foundation.

00:38:39.702 --> 00:38:42.826
So, um, I've worked.

00:38:42.826 --> 00:39:02.856
I've worked for the last 15 years to really build a solid spiritual foundation and really to really to overcome a lot of the things that I that I tried to replace football with so and I replaced it with everything.

00:39:02.856 --> 00:39:12.126
I mean it was shopping, drinking pain pills, like anything Like man, you name it.

00:39:12.126 --> 00:39:24.702
I tried it and man, the only thing that I was missing and I was just missing that team and I was missing that spiritual foundation, that connection which I found now with.

00:39:24.762 --> 00:39:46.608
I found now um with God and really, um, helping other people and talking with other guys, like realizing that that I've had a lot of, uh, a lot of concussions, and I mean, what's a concussion Like?

00:39:46.608 --> 00:39:49.574
The question is, people ask me, how many concussions did I have?

00:39:49.574 --> 00:39:51.887
Well, I asked them, well, what's a concussion?

00:39:51.887 --> 00:39:56.541
If a concussion, you think a concussion is getting knocked out, I've had two of those.

00:39:56.541 --> 00:40:11.222
But if a concussion is like seeing stars, or like getting um, like few, like seeing stars, or or having like a little bit of wonky vision, man, I had hundreds thousands of those, I mean.

00:40:11.222 --> 00:40:18.989
I mean I didn't think I had a good practice unless I got got my bell rung in training camp, that's, that was every day for 30 days.

00:40:18.989 --> 00:40:28.360
I was trying to trying to hit somebody so I would see, so I would see those stars, and I mean so I would see those stars.

00:40:28.360 --> 00:40:59.184
So the accumulation of those over time, man, and those headaches and then the depressionCPE symptoms were kind of the chicken of the egg which one hatched first, and addiction too.

00:40:59.184 --> 00:41:32.170
So all the things kind of boil down to a daily regimen of feeding myself spiritually, helping other people and growing each day to be as healthy as I can, moving forward and then to help other guys that come out of the league, because uh, 100 of the players in the nfl right now, 100 are going to retire before they're 45 unless they're, unless there's another tom br, where Aaron Rodgers is pretty close, but everybody's going to retire at a young age.

00:41:33.442 --> 00:41:50.670
It's having a team to go to after that and really building your spiritual foundation to succeed after you're out of the game that really helps God succeed after football what um?

00:41:51.313 --> 00:41:51.974
what role?

00:41:51.974 --> 00:41:53.623
I mean that's obviously.

00:41:53.623 --> 00:41:59.143
We've seen that with the helmets, you know, and they're trying to do all these different things.

00:41:59.143 --> 00:42:01.807
Now you see guys wearing the um.

00:42:01.807 --> 00:42:19.920
You know that guardian cap on there and you see a lot of the receivers wearing those, you see a lot of the offensive linemen wearing those um, but what role is the nfl taking to combat some of these issues?

00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:26.788
I guess is what I'm saying and well, I think the way they teach tackling is different.

00:42:26.788 --> 00:42:33.876
When I was growing up, I was taught to tackle put a crown on my head, on the chin of my opponent.

00:42:33.876 --> 00:42:50.096
Now they're teaching them to keep your head up, to use your shoulder pads, so it's near hip, near shoulder, on tackling running backs and receivers and keeping your head out and keeping your head behind the ball carrier.

00:42:50.096 --> 00:42:54.010
So the way they teach it is different.

00:42:54.010 --> 00:42:59.492
I feel like the way they teach it causes a lot of missed tackles.

00:42:59.492 --> 00:43:06.929
So there's a lot more missed tackles in the NFL and college now because of the way they teach it, but it's full player safety.

00:43:06.929 --> 00:43:13.563
College now, because of the way they teach it, but it's full player safety.

00:43:13.585 --> 00:43:14.387
Um, uh, obviously, the fine schedule.

00:43:14.387 --> 00:43:15.389
There's, uh, the targeting man.

00:43:15.389 --> 00:43:33.632
I would have gotten a lot more targetings than I got interceptions, I mean, and that was my, that was my main ability was was to hit somebody with my helmet and man, I don't know that I would have been able to play in today's football college or NFL.

00:43:33.632 --> 00:43:39.882
But I mean they're doing it in player safety and I think they're doing the best they can.

00:43:39.882 --> 00:43:41.202
You can't stop physics.

00:43:41.202 --> 00:43:51.755
I mean, the helmet technology is not going to save people from getting concussions or CPE.

00:43:51.755 --> 00:43:58.038
I mean you're just not going to be able to change physics Like you're hitting.

00:43:58.038 --> 00:44:05.052
Guys are running 21 miles an hour and they're going to run into each other.

00:44:05.052 --> 00:44:06.096
There's going to be big hits.

00:44:06.585 --> 00:44:08.231
That's the best part of the game really.

00:44:08.231 --> 00:44:22.668
I mean Chuck Cecil was my DB coach for the Titans and he was my hero growing up, like for the Packers and if you want to see some big hits, you see Chuck Cecil and man.

00:44:22.668 --> 00:44:23.914
It's just a different game.

00:44:23.914 --> 00:44:31.851
There's a lot more knowledge and I would get concussed or I would have a concussion and I would never come out of the game.

00:44:31.851 --> 00:44:42.494
I was not coming out of the game because I didn't want to be taken out of the game or seen as weak by my teammates and I wanted to be the mental toughness part.

00:44:42.494 --> 00:44:46.534
But I think the players are a lot more aware now.

00:44:46.534 --> 00:45:04.181
You got guys that are coming out of the games, realizing the long-term effect of head injuries and kind of taking themselves out, taking the right amount of time to address those issues.

00:45:04.181 --> 00:45:09.686
But I mean there are long-term issues and I felt every bit of that I think.

00:45:10.068 --> 00:45:20.514
Uh, kenny, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I think the nfl even now has concussion spotters where their job is to sit up there in the stands.

00:45:20.514 --> 00:45:25.128
And you know, watch that guy on the sidelines.

00:45:25.128 --> 00:45:28.141