Baseball Coaching Strategies for Close Games and Better Decision Making

Opening And Sponsor Message

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Today, on baseball coaches.com. You'll discover what high school coaches do to develop complete players. From game like batting practice to create crash on the base players, starting games, I'm high school notes. Today's episode of baseball focused on netting professionals, including programs with one facility at a time. Will Minor and his team at the netting professionals specialize in the design, fabrication, and installation of custom netting for baseball and softball. This includes backstops, padding cages, PP turtles, screens, ballparts, and more. They also designed and installed digital graphic wall padding, windscreen, turf, turf protectors, dugout benches, and cubbies. Netting Pros also work with football, soccer, lacrosse, golf courses, and even pickleball. Contact them today at 844-620-2707. That's 844-620-2707. And you can visit them online at www.nettingpros.com. Check out Netting Pros on X, Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn for all their latest products and projects.

Why Coaches Start A Podcast

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Hello and welcome to Baseball Coaches Unplugged. I'm your host, Coach Ken Carpenter. Joining me today is Jonathan Gellner, head baseball coach at Claremore High School in Oklahoma, just outside of Tulsa. Coach, thanks for taking time to join me on Baseball Coaches Unplugged.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Well, thanks, Ken. I appreciate it. I told you off the mic, I'm a little nervous. I'm usually the one asking questions, and now it's it's flipped on me. So but thankful to be here, thankful that you were able to make some time and really humbled that you had asked me to be on, but thank you for your time.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Well, since you mentioned it, I I kind of left it out there at the beginning, but you're a host of uh just a fantastic podcast yourself ahead of the curve. And what prompted you to do the podcast and and how beneficial is it as a coach to have some of the guests that you've had on because you've had some incredible guests.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Yeah, you know, it's we talk about being lifelong learners, right? And I think I started the idea in 2016, and I was, you know, I was married, but no kids, and I was living in Frisco, Texas, and had like a 40-minute commute. I lived like five miles away, but you know, Dallas traffic. And so I'm sitting in traffic every day, and I'm like, okay, so the ABCA at that time, I think, was selling videos. They weren't doing like the subscription membership, and they were doing a podcast from time to time. So Sheets was still in the early stages, and then I was like, you know, I I'd listened to a couple and I was like, I really want to do one that just focuses on like player development and coach development. And you know, there's there's some great ones out there that tell the stories, but I wanted to like, hey, how can I get better? I was preparing myself to be a head coach or even just to be better with my group of kids. And so I was like, well, maybe I'll just start one. And at that time, I mean, I don't know how popular podcasts were, but now there's it seems like like there's a million, but I don't think there were that many at the time. So I had listened to like Ryan Hawk, a learning leader, and he actually sat down with me on a Zoom and like walked me through the entire process, which was awesome, and then talked with Sheets several times, and and I just told him, like, I'm not, you know, we're all in this together, and the more good coaches we can get on, then the better for us. But I'll tell you, it really did change my life. I've gotten to meet, you know, just more coaches around the country than I ever could have believed, and to make more connections, which are great for just you know bouncing ideas off of each other. And hey, here's a situation that came up. What you know, what would you guys do? And that's that's been the biggest piece of it, and you know, just building your content library because like the last couple of weeks, I just have so much information from different coaches from you know different walks of life, and I'm like, how can I simplify this and just go and execute it? So like I have an infield library of stuff that's just you know from 10 years ago, and you've got like you've got Kai Correa, and you've got you know Tucker Frawley, and you've got you know Clay Cox and you've got Tyler Gillon, you've got all these different you know, infield guys, and I'm like, okay, I can't do all of it, so how do I like do this for what we have with the time that we're given? And and that's the other side of it. It's like you can get into information overload quite a bit. But as far as just a personal standpoint, I mean it's it's it's been a game changer for me as a as a coach, which you know is a reflection of our kids. I hope that they're getting better because I'm getting better, but it's been a really neat journey, and I'm I'm really grateful to for I think we had 250 episodes, which you're getting up, you're getting up there too, or maybe even more now. But you could probably say the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Yeah, it's uh it's definitely opened my eyes up to it. And there's a big part of me that was like I wish I could have had all these podcast episodes under my belt before I became a head coach because I've learned so much from it.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Right.

What Fans Miss In Tight Games

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Well, let's let's really jump into what I wanted to get to with you was the high school game, and what if something inside the high school dugout during a tight game that fans in the stands just completely miss or don't get?

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Inside, I think the all the moving pieces, you know, I think that you're thinking about. I mean, and and it it I'm gonna say this a lot, is it depends, right? Is it a tight game on a weekend? Is it a tight game in a situation? Is it the state tournament? Is it a you know, we have districts every Monday and Tuesday, which then sets us up for regionals and to be able to host or go somewhere else, and which is another big seating thing. And you know, it I think it just goes back into I don't know that people in the stands realize how, especially our staff, how prepared we are, and that we still make mistakes, you know, because baseball is really hard, and we may make a pitching change, and although we believe in the kid, he may miss one pitch that changes the entire game, and then you know, everybody can say, Oh, like we shouldn't have done it, you know. So it is what it is. And then we go back and we reflect on okay, like, where did we go wrong? Is there anything else we could have done? And so, like last year in the state tournament, you know, after the game, we lose. We had a really tough draw against a guy that was really, really good, and we lost by a couple of runs, and we felt like we were prepared and relaxed, and you know, they had a couple things that went their way, and we didn't. And you go back and look and you go, okay, wow, like is there anything in those moments that we could have done better? And sometimes there is, and you learn from it, and sometimes it's just baseball's really hard, and it's you get really unlucky sometimes. So I think that's the biggest thing is you you can go back and look and make changes, but they say hindsight's 2020, and you know, if you could have those things back, then I'm of course we would, but I think that especially good coaches, I don't know that they realize how much how hard we take that stuff sometimes, and but also like how much thought it goes into it, it's not just spread of the moment type things.

Winning Now While Developing Players

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Well, how do you balance I don't know how I want to say this, you know, chasing wins today versus you know, with the developing of the complete player?

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Well, I think they they go hand in hand, right? I think you know, one of the things that we tell our parents is, you know, they're not gonna get equal playing time, but they're gonna get equal coaching. And, you know, I I think that especially with us, a couple of years ago, they made it a law that during a certain time period in the summer, you could transfer to any school that you want one time. So we've been, you know, on the good side of that a couple of times, and then you know, we've been on the un the ungood, I guess you say ungood, that's not even a word, but the unlucky side of that sometimes too. And it's like that's the hard part too, because especially like last year we lost a really good player to actually a rival school. And you know, I took that one hard because we had spent you know, three years developing relationships, and then you know, there wasn't even a conversation with that. But you know, teenagers, it's hard, it's hard to have those conversations. But with the development side, I mean, with the years that they're there, we're gonna try and develop them all to the best of their ability. And with the winning side, you know, once the game starts, it's like, guys, like we're it's a business, you know, it's and we care about you. And but if I don't win and I don't put my best team on the field, then I'm not doing my job too. So I think that's another thing that people don't see is you know, it's it's not easy for us to have to sit some of our best, you know, character kids. But at the end of the day, we have a lot of kids that do things well, we have a lot of things kids that do things right, and we have a lot of kids that we do like, but there's only nine that are gonna play at a time, ten with the DH. And I think that if parents could, you know, be in the dugout or in the locker room and and at practice every day, seeing us pouring out to all of them, then I think that they would have a better understanding of that. But you know, I I just I just think you know, we got to develop them all, and I think the wins will be a byproduct product of that. But between the lines, we're trying to do everything we can, you know, with keeping the kids healthy and doing things right to be able to win because it's important too.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Yes, I totally agree. I you know, I think probably one of the toughest things as a coach is when you have to slap that starting line up on the dugout there for the guys to look at. And you know, as a coach, I I yeah, you want to play everybody, but that's that's not the reality. So it's it's always a a challenge. But you know, you know, talking about your players, you know, you have a great staff, you're a great coach, and you know, you're coaching them up to the best of your ability. How are you are you an ad I guess are you an advocate for players coaching players?

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, especially I don't it depends on how it is too, you know, because there's a there's a way to that certain kids respond. And you know, you want to have leaders on your team, you want to have people that are standard setters, but there's also a way to go about it. And so we've we have some guys that are very type A that that want to do well, that want to win, and you know, sometimes they're a little harsher, and that would that is a conversation. But you also don't want to have the player that sees somebody doing something wrong and not say something about it. And you know, they're they're around each other way more than we are, and we feel like we're around our kids all the time, but all the time in the locker room, all the time off the field, our kids, kids spend a ton of time together, and so if they're not you know coaching each other, then you know we're we're losing that that side of things. But we do have a good staff, great staff. But when you can get the players to buy into what the standard looks like, and uh a lot of times it's older players with the younger players, like the freshman kids with like mechanics and stuff, but with the older kids with you know, coaching up the other older kids, it's more about effort and attitude. And that's I say, like, these are non-negotiables for us. If you see something, you gotta say something, otherwise you're letting the team down. And it's selfish, like you're not it's selfish to not say something. So, because you don't want to get out of your comfort zone to say, hey man, like we need to pick this up. And that's all the conversation that needs to be had. But, you know, I I'm a big proponent of it, and I think if if you can coach your players up on getting out of their comfort zone and doing that and doing it the right way, then I think it can only benefit your team.

Competitive BP That Trains Everyone

SPEAKER_00 12:09

You host a you know, like we talked about early, the the uh ahead of the curve podcast. Sure. Is there a drill or two that you picked up from a guest that you currently use with your high school team?

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah, I think all of them, actually. So if you could narrow that down for me a little bit, but no, I I don't I honestly don't know that that I have any original ideas. And it's like, okay, how can we fit this within our program? And I think you know, the biggest thing that I you know I will I will push with coaches is using BP to to be able to utilize it correctly, and not saying that we do it perfectly every time, but I feel like you know, we center a lot of things around that, and there's a ton of stuff, you know, going on. And I know you know a really good friend of mine and and I go back and forth, he's a pitching guy, of course. But he's like, Oh, we don't need to hit on the field. I'm like, just think he's like, You only get like you know 15 swings, and I'm like, well, it's it's not that for that, it's for defense and and base running. And he's like, Well, I said, and I can tell you this, our guys love to see ball flight. So, you know, when we get when we do do BP, there's usually you know a ton of stuff going on with our JB kids too. You know, we have about 35 guys in the program from 9th to 12th, and so there's about seven different stations going on, and we have cages at the field, and there's usually a base running group or two. Like last year we went to, okay, maybe our younger guys are at second base, but our older guys are at first base, and then they flip, so you don't have that many guys standing around. You've got your you know, your stations in the left or in the cages, and you know, we've got your bunt station, but everything has a purpose, and every like even our defense, like this this fall, we'll do it a couple times a week just on the machine, but we're gonna give a gold glove award in the fall. So, like whoever makes the most wow plays or the most diving bodies, or you know, we're gonna present it once a week to that person and and put it on Instagram and then you know, really trying to promote defense because when people think batting practice, they think, oh, like let me just get up and and you know try and hit doubles or or home runs or whatever. But uh really trying to promote that, and that's part of that effort piece too. You know, we want to see guys diving around and testing themselves and failing on a Monday and in September rather than trying to do it on you know March 2nd on a big district game. So I think just trying to figure out a system to where you know your groups are small, they're getting as many live reps as we can get, because I think that you can teach a ton within that. You may have to have a couple of coaches, and so we actually assign our coaches different stations. So one will be with one group of base runners, another one will be with another one. We've got a couple in the cages, one with the hitting, and I'm usually you know taking a step back by that time and just kind of charting and talking to guys about you know different things that we're seeing. So that's that's really one of them, and just trying to find different formats of that, because you know, I hear a lot of coaches gripe about you know, they play a lot, but they don't get taught a lot, and you know, being able to balance the amount of reps that they're getting versus you know the amount of live reps, and there's no better defense than getting live reps off of a bat. So I think that's one thing that that our kids really like, the competitive BP setting, because it's not just offense, you know, and and we we anytime somebody makes a wow play, we just go, hey, hey, and then the other guy's like, hey, you know, so but then like getting really trying to promote more things that help us win. So even like hit by pitches, we give out a Snickers bar every time they get hit by pitch. In the last two years, we've had two kids break or hit by pitch records with over 25 hit-by-pitches, and I think we had a hundred two years ago. So just you know, things like that that just reward the things that you want to see, and even it's a little thing, but every week they're like, hey, where's my Snickers bar? All right, man, you guys are gonna break the bank, but I'll I'll wear that. So, but I know that's a little bit off topic, but going back to you know, the original question, is there one drill? No. But just trying to, you know, just center it, we center everything around on-field batting practice just because it gives us a ton of live reps if you do it right, but it takes a ton of time on the front end to be able to make sure those guys are knowing where they're going. And it does take a little bit of help, but you can do it with with one coach and just tracking one thing, you know. But just make sure your your eyes are on it. We we record it too. And if there's anything that we need to address, we just go back and die, and the sky doesn't lie, as all the football coaches like to say.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yeah. You know, the you mentioned the snicker bar. I I I used to hand out uh Gatorade. Sure. And uh I can remember one coach yelling at me during a game, and he said, You teach your guys to get hit. And I was like, Well, no, I just teach them how to be safe when the ball's pitched inside, basically.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Well, we we talked to our guys too. It is it is selfless. We don't want you to get hit in the head, we don't want you to get hit in the knees, but the minute that you start to flinch, then you are susceptible to breaking balls too. So that actually keeps you in as a better hitter. So it's gonna make you a better hitter. And especially with two strikes, like our dugout is pretty relentless when guys get out of the way of the ball at this point in time. So does it still happen? Yes, unfortunately. I mean, but you don't want we do teach that too. We have the little foam balls, and we'll just you know teach them to turn and and drop their bat, you know, behind behind their body and just make sure they're doing it the right way. But but yeah, no, I I'm with you. Are we teaching them to get hit? I mean, yeah, kind of the right way though.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Exactly.

Analytics Versus Trusting Your Gut

SPEAKER_00 17:44

How much do you uh rely on the the modern data analytics versus trusting your natural instincts as a coach?

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Well, what do you mean with like analytics and data?

SPEAKER_00 17:57

You're talking about I mean I guess you know, you know, do you do you look at it like all right, statistically it says we should be doing this, but you know, maybe you know your pitcher or you know your hitter, you know, like for example, first and second late in the game, right? And you maybe the the baseball says you should try to get a bunt down to move them into scoring position versus you know, you got a guy you know that's he's on that day with that pitcher.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Sure. I will say that is actually a conversation I've had with myself a lot in probably the last six months because I think I've regretted not trusting my gut more than anything else. And there's actually a lot of science behind it of just like, hey, your gut has some intel too, it's not just spur-of-the-moment type thing. And I think if you're prepared, your gut's gonna tell you the right thing. And you know, I've I've second guessed myself and then changed things like that. It's like, oh, I want to let this guy hit. But I know he I know he's need we need to bunt here, and but he's not really a good bunner. But what do we and you know, you second guess yourself, but I think you know, I've gone back and forth of that of just like my what is my initial reaction, and you know, I I think I've I would go back to more of that stuff too, just of you know, I'm prepared, I know our guys, I see him every day. Don't second guess yourself, like trust your gut, your gut has a lot to say about it. And I think that like I said, I would go, I I've I have regretted more not trusting it and gone back and got, gosh dang it, why did I second guess myself? You know, and that happens because again, kids and teenagers and baseball is all a big mix of hard. But I think you know, that's one thing that I'm like, okay, this guy's tired, I need to take him out, and then he's like, he gets a hitter out, and you're like, what do I do? You know, and that just comes back to like I was gonna take him out one pitch ago, and then he just gets an out, like, just go do it, just go do it, and he's gonna be mad or whatever, or like, hey, this is my guy, I'm gonna let him go through it, even though you know, maybe I take a mountain visit, don't let him talk you into it, you know, trust your gut, but it all, you know, it depends on the kid, it depends on the guy. But I I think you know, if you're prepared and and you've been around the game enough that I think your gut has a say too.

Getting Players To Buy Into Bunting

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Well, yeah, you mentioned bunning there, and that kind of leads into my next question. You know, I recalled I I had a center fielder, you know, he had all the the traits. Great speed. Smart kid. I think he's a he's a neurosurgeon right now. So way smart. So he he he had all the traits, but as a junior, you know, I kept saying, you know, you you gotta trust yourself and and rely on you know dropping down a drag butt. And he just didn't have the confidence in it and didn't have a whole lot of success that junior year. His senior year, he really bought into the idea. And I I want to say he had nine or ten base hit bunts. I believe it. How do you uh talk to your players about buying into you know whether it's the bunting or whatever it is you're trying to work on?

SPEAKER_02 21:03

You know, I've been trying to figure that out myself because yeah, we could not bunt very well last year, and the guys that could it put a lot of pressure on on them as a defense. And I just talked to him as a tool in the toolbox. So I use like Mike Trout used to be my example, right? But now it's like Shohei. And so it's like, does Shohei bunt? And they're like, uh, no. And I was like, because he doesn't need to, but can he? And they're like, yeah, he can. So I think that there's some there's some saying your best hitters are your best bunners because of you know the hand-eye coordination aspect of it. But you know, we we talk a lot about we're not giving up an out, we're trying to put pressure on a defense, and it needs to be a tool in the toolbox because you know, Ohio weather's not great, Oklahoma weather's not great, and there's days that we you know, we have the wind blowing out thirty miles an hour, and then you turn around in twenty four hours and it's blowing in at fifty miles an hour, and or thirty miles an hour, fifty degree weather. So we gotta be able to to Move runners because the last couple of years we've set a lot of offensive records with just doubles and home runs and different things like that. But if the wind was blowing in, we had a really tough time like scoring runs. And so just understanding like we have to be able to take what the game gives us and the conditions give us. And if you know we're asking you to get a bunt down, we we need to be able to. And I mean, we bunt a lot, and it was still very frustrating to watch you know guys foul off bunts, or it wasn't necessarily a buy-in thing, but it was more of just a we probably need to do that early on in their career of just like, hey, first and second, try and get it to the third baseman because it's a really hard play for him to read it and then come and make it and then throw the guy out. And you know, especially if you're you know six through nine in the lineup. I will say one other thing that we helped with that was we had two different groups, and I kind of stole it from a Ohio native Tom Marker, but we had just we had two groups called we called them ballers and bangers. And we just got to a point in the season to where everybody's VP looked very similar. And I was like, you know, we have a guy that set our home run record last year. We had a guy that's you know that's got hurt, but he's committed to Arizona State, so he had, you know, he he could really hit. And then we had a guy that set our triples and our RBI record, and I'm like, why am I I'm not ever gonna bunt these guys, right? We had another kid that tied our doubles record, and so I'm like, I like it's a very and they can, they could bunt, but it's like their BP needs to look different than somebody else's, right? And so we put those, and then I had another kid that is as a rising senior, he had didn't play for three years, and for whatever reason something clicked and he was our DH and he was unbelievable. And it was a really cool story because he was like, he wasn't very good as a freshman, and then he had an arm injury as a sophomore, and then he was fighting through injuries as a junior and was a JV kid his whole life, and then came in as a pinch hitter in one game and hit a double, and we're like, oh, like okay, that's cool, like maybe that's his role, and he just kept buying into it, and so he's gonna be a story that that we tell for a long time of a lot, just like hey, waiting your turn, and when you get your opportunity, you got to take a hold of it. So, but he was in that group too, because he was he was an offensive guard and he weighed about 260 pounds, so he's not gonna be a drag bunt candidate, right? So we had you know our leadoff and our two-hole, and basically our six through nine, we're kind of your your ballers group, your hit and run guys, your guys thinking, you know, safety squeeze, and they've they've got just got to be able to do that. And then we you know, we just kind of put them in those groups just based on their skill sets and just say, hey, like you weigh 125 pounds, like you're not gonna put a ball in the gap, but you can do this. And at our field, it's it's actually pretty big. It's an old Legion park, so it's 80 years old this year, which is really neat, but it's not a small ballpark. And there's a lot of doubles and a lot of triples to be had, but it's really hard to get it out, especially with the weather that we have when it's cold and it's blowing straight in. We've got to be able to do that stuff. And so we talk a lot about on base and quality at bats and being able to slug too. And I think with between those three things, that our offense has been pretty good, but we've also had some good players, so you know, we we have a very large junior and senior class, and you know, we would be nothing without players, and you know, I say all those things saying, and I'm not the guru by any means. They are like the we've got good players right now, and and they really buy into what we're doing. And but it that is one thing that we did try and change up a little bit last year that we felt like was beneficial to our team, just because then we could see those guys that we would probably bunt and needed to bunt the days that we would, and we did it every Wednesday, like we do BP every Wednesday because we play Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, or Saturday, like four games a week, four or five sometimes. So we would kind of use that as our evaluation of like, hey, like we really need to have you in this situation. So let's try and do it as much as possible.

Teaching Smart Aggressive Baserunning

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Well, let's talk pressure on the base path. And I I I truly believe that the team that that's good at creating that pressure is the team that's successful more time than not. How do you teach your team to be aggressive but also be smart about it?

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Oh, I think you know, we do base running every day, and I think that's one of our warmups. We went we kind of went away from the dynamic warm-up the last couple of years. So we do like an arm farm, which is kind of all of your upper body stuff, and then our other dynamic piece will be like base running. And so, like this year we're gonna spend like a week at first base, and just hey, here's well, we start at home plate, like here's what a hard 90 looks like, especially with the new base now. We need to know, like, hey, what are the rules with this? And you know, where do we because like I'm sure you guys, well, I guess everybody's doing it with the double base, but you know, can you do you go inside or outside? And sometimes that's that changes based on where the catcher is going to be throwing from. Because he can establish an outside lane, then you have to go inside. So really working that. But we do base running a lot, we do double bases a lot, so like you know, we five station base running, which I'm sure you've heard. So like home to second, go back to go back to go back to first, first to third, second to home, and then you have another hard station or station that's hard 90. Because, you know, we can do a ton of different things on the base pads, but just how do we simplify it, right? And do it over and over and over and over. So that was one. We do a lot of steel jumps and ways to try and teach that inside during our like preseason period. So for us, we're not very fast, and so we have to be very smart. So trying to figure out because last year at this time, we were like, okay, so if we've got a guy who's in a slide step with a good catcher, we're like, we're we can't go anywhere. So what are our options? Your options are you know basically bunt, you're a dirt ball reader, or you know, we can hit and run, right? And so we started to try to implement some different you know, vault leads against guys like that based on their timing. And so, okay, so that helped us a little bit some this year, but then just building tools in their toolbox of being able to do things like that. So, you know, we are you know, if we're on a two-strike count, you're expecting a dirt ball, and if you read downhill angle like we do dirt ball reads quite a bit, and then when they do do that and they don't they fail at it and they get thrown out, it's not something that you blow up about. And I think that helps quite a bit. Of I and we I tell and I coach summer ball too, so with travel baseball, and I'm like, guys, I'm I'm gonna get more mad when you don't go rather than when you go and and you're not aggressive about it. So it's really hard for high school kids to throw a guy out from the outfield, you know, and anytime the ball's out there, it's like if you can beat the guy to the next base, then give it a shot, you know, and being able to trust yourself. So with with travel ball this summer, it was more of just hey, having your eyes on the baseball, which is our first rule of base running, is know where the baseball is at. And then if you feel like in your gut in the in the moment that you can go, then just go. And that's a lot of like our fall and our preseason stuff, and then teachable moments in the spring, but but that's another thing of BP. Hey, you've got you know, you get you we've got usually two guys that go, and then the second guy is just like the visual guy of like, hey, I would go on this one, and then the next guy steps up, and then he becomes the primary guy, and then he decides on a swing or on a ball in play to be able to read it, and then he takes three or four hard steps one way or the other, and that's his live read. So we do that a lot in BP. We'll have a whole base running station, and that helps us with uh trying to figure out you know where they can go, what they can do, and the a lot of the ones that we see dirt ball reads, I think high school kids can get a lot better at those. The first to thirds, I think a lot of kids can get better at those. And then just like the we call it the hang play, but the ball that's just right over the infield that they just need to pause and turn around and and watch it down. You know, some guys will just take off, or sometimes guys will just go back and tag, and they they don't advance anywhere. And so the conversation goes, okay, can you are you gonna advance on that if it falls? And they're like, Yeah, then turn around and just watch it fall and then go to the next base if it's close. It's like I like the the I call them duck farts, but just the ones that that are right over the infielder, and then then I'm like, so can you tag in advance? And they're like, no, and I like so there's no reason to rush back to the bag. So those are the ones that were really big on when I was teaching them this summer, because it's a whole group of kids, and you don't have a ton of time to teach them, and you don't have you know six months of practices to prepare them to be able to do that. But I think just the non-blowing up on when they are aggressive and they are trying, you know, you hope that that's not in a big situation that do that early in the season when it doesn't matter as much, but still it's you know, if they get called out on a bang bang play, then you know, you're the one that's preaching trying to be aggressive, then sometimes you just gotta live with it. But a lot of times with high school kids it works out better than it would on the other end.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Well you know, as a third base coach, or if you have a third base coach, I think in high school, more often than not, on a base hit to the outfield, you should probably be trying to send send the runner because there's a lot of things that's gotta happen. Do you have a set rule that you use whether you're the third base coach or you have somebody doing

Third Base Coaching And Send Decisions

SPEAKER_00 31:35

it?

SPEAKER_02 31:35

No, I definitely coach third because I'm a little bit of a control freak. So I don't know what I would do in the dugout in in anymore. Uh I tried it in a scrimmage and then I was I just I didn't I didn't know what to do with my hands. So I basically was was freaking out. But no, I and I trust our guys to be able to do that, but I want to be able to give them a late steal if I feel something, or like because we have different verbals or different hand signals that are not like your full sign system to be able to do that, or like, hey, here I I want you to read this, and then whenever I give you this, I just want you to take off. Like if we have like we call it UCLA timing. But from a third base standpoint, usually on a grass, dirt, grass read, it's it's a pretty easy one because it's gonna be it's gonna be pretty slow getting to the outfielder. But usually what I try to do is I I get umpires get on to me all the time about being out of the coach's box. And I I try and get as far back and deep as I can to be able to see everything. And so I try and get as far back as I can so the runner can see me, and then when he sees me, like I can I can shut him down as as late as possible. So because sometimes you'll get like the guy ease up and then he'll just throw it to second base, and it's like okay, well, we'll just take that. But what I try to do is does he have the ball coming towards home with by the time that we get to the bag? And if he does, I just shut him down. So if he doesn't have the ball or if he's moving the opposite direction of where we're trying to send the runner, then I then you send him. So it's and it's a lot easier said, and it's it's it's depends on the guy's arm and how deep he is, too. But you know, in in high school, a lot of guys will play super far in. But if if they're like playing on the warning track and the wind's blowing out, then you you know, you're Ron Washington over at third base, you're just sending everybody. But if it's playing in, that's usually my key, though. And I think that that that was something that I can't remember who told me that a long time ago. But if they can get to or past the bag before the outfielder has the ball, just go. And you know, you can the guy has a very weak arm, or you can tell he's very inaccurate, then you can probably get a couple steps or two. But usually when I get guys thrown out by 20 feet, that means like, okay, yep. In my mind's eye, I'm like, okay, yeah. They that was a bad sin because of X, Y, or Z. And I wasn't, you know, paying attention or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Yes, totally

Handling Parents, Roles, And Admin Support

SPEAKER_00 33:57

makes sense. All right, I'm gonna put you into a high school baseball scenario because you know it's it seems like it's becoming more and more realistic, I guess. And it's it seems to be happening. And just from being on this podcast and talking to coaches all over the country, I hear all kinds of stories. But in this scenario, you have a a player who's good enough that he's a he's a young player, but he's pitching on the varsity, but he isn't quite good enough to be a starter as a position player. And so you you you do the you go the route of hey, you know, you're pitching on Monday, and then you know the other days you're going to go and get your time on the JV as a position player. That way you can get your swings in. But you have the player and the parents who maybe aren't in agree in agreement with you. Here's the caveat. Parents have no problem taking their grievances to the 80 or even higher. This is a challenge for every high school coach, pretty much, I think. How d how do you handle that in that situation?

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Well, for the young coaches listening that are wanting to be a head coach, this happens every year. Like it's not, it's it's gonna happen three or four times a year. And so what I would say to them is be prepared for that. And I hate saying calling it evidence, but you've got to have reasons why. And it's okay as a parent to give them those things, but also as a young coach that wants to be a head coach, make sure you have an administration that is gonna support that. And even in your interview, I would say give them that situation and say, How can we handle this together? And so thankfully, I've been you know blessed to be able to have some great ADs. I've got a new one, and that I've got the other one that hired me, and they were both they've both been very supportive because it comes up, and especially with good teams, because when you have good teams, you're gonna have competition and you're gonna have some depth, and there's gonna be three or four guys that feel like they could be doing similar things to the guy that's in front of them, and maybe that guy is struggling or whatever, but it's gonna come up, and I would say have that conversation early on, and saying, you know, me saying this is I I I dealt with that a couple of times this year, and you know, it's it's it was hard. It was hard, and especially because we had some our junior class was really good, and we had some senior role players that just could not understand X, Y, or Z. And it was it's hard, it's hard to do that, especially when you care. And you know, it just can't we can't stop having conversations with them because I felt like you know, sometimes when players don't play, they build up a wall, and now you're the enemy. And that's the hard part because you know you care about them and you build, you spend all of this time trying to build relationships and making them better in the minute that you post the lineup, or they're not in it for a couple of days, or they're not in it in the role that they want, now you're the enemy. And just really trying to combat that, but try and do it early on and just say, you know, let's say, you know, Ken, hey, you've got a really good arm, but we've got a couple of guys ahead of you. And I I we try to do this in February or like right after scrimmages and kind of setting it up. But we feel like you know, for the future of this program, you're gonna be a really big part of it. And that's why we need you to go to JV and get your reps rather than, you know, right now we feel like you would not be playing every day on varsity, so we want you to go play every day on JV when you're not pitching, just so when that opportunity comes, you're gonna be ready. And you know, I I try and put my, you know, I have parents ask me questions all the time about different things, and some good and some bad, but it's like this is what I would tell my kid. Like, I'm gonna put my son in this situation, and this is what I would tell them. Now, parents are obvious obviously irrational, and they do it out of love for their kid, and it's gonna happen every single year, and it's okay to disagree, and as a coach, you just gotta move on, and because they're they're doing it because they want their son to play, and you're doing it because you want what's best for him long term, what's with what's best for the team short term, and you just gotta be able to live with it. And I have a hard time with that too, because you know, I do care, and I think a lot of us coaches, especially the ones that are listening, do care. But it's just it is what it is, it's the nature of the business. So long story short, have a good AD, be prepared whenever it does come, and then you know, listen, be caring and empathetic, and just you gotta move on, you can't take it home with you.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

You know, I the the reason I I I put that question uh out there was I ran into a uh a former player the other day, and he was you know, we were talking and he he was just talking about some of the things that he's experienced and some of the things that now it's like just blows up on social media with things happening. And and he said that a lot of times the players know. And you know, I was uh I was a big at once the we were ready to start the season, I would have my own stack of lineup cards and I would pass them out to the players. And I'd say, all right, guys, write your name at the top and give me your starting lineup, you know, and who's playing what position, and then on the back, write you know your your pitching rotation or whatever it may be. And sometimes with parents, if you if you ran into a parent, I only had it happen once, but I had a parent that was upset, and I I I showed him the card, and I said, Your son doesn't view himself as a starter. And and you you can just see that the dad almost sat back in his chair, like, wow. You know, so sometimes that helps in that and it kind of it kind of made my situation a little easier as a coach. But there are just so many coaches that are just walking away or being told that, hey, we don't we don't need your services anymore because parents have no problem trying to go out and get your job. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

No, it's it's yeah, it uh yeah, no, it and it happens to some of the best of them. And that's why I say like having a healthy relationship with it, understanding that it's gonna happen and that it's not personal to you, you're just the person that is doing this, right? But being empathetic and you know, it's there's been some situations of some different coaches that it is out of their hands, unfortunately, and you know what, like it sucks. So I don't I wish there was a a better answer, but yeah, it's it's it definitely crosses your mind from time to time.

Hate Losing And The Coach Mindset

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Hate losing or love winning?

SPEAKER_02 41:06

I hate losing. I heard you ask this question to everybody, and I think I listened to three or four podcasts from yours, you know, yesterday, and some guys are like, oh, I just love winning. I just I hate losing. Like it's almost I and uh maybe that's unhealthy, I don't know. But winning is kind of a relief of like, okay, we're we're doing the right things, and winning or yeah, loot winning is like that, and then losing is like, oh my gosh, like where are we going wrong? Like what's going on? And it just it's uh I've gotten better with losing, but it's still I hate it. I hate like in everything.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

You know, I I was always a hate losing type guy, and looking back on a lot of the stuff that I did, I I sometimes wish I would have enjoyed the wins a little more.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

It's pretty healthy there, Ken. I I can agree with you. You know, Ted Lasso is is, you know, I'm sure he loves winning, but he's kind of a guy that I've been like, you know what? He probably really enjoys coaching most of the time. And I know he's fictional, and there's some guys like that, but that's I've I've got to be better about that because at the end of the day, there's so many, many things outside of our control, and they're really it like we're trusting our careers to teenagers who are gonna be over it in 10 minutes after the game, and we're carrying it for the next, you know, 10 hours sometimes. And you know, it's it's gotta learn from it and move on. But yeah, I I don't like losing, especially because then somebody's got something on you for the next 365 days or whatever, and you're like, I know we're working harder than these guys, you know. Maybe that's arrogance, I don't know, but I just I hate losing.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Well, the the the last two questions here, I want to have a little fun with it

Dream Game And A Dad’s MLB Story

SPEAKER_00 42:47

here. If you could go back in time and have the best seats in the house for any sporting event, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 42:57

Man, any sporting event, any game? Any game, yeah. So I was trying to think of like some game seven World Series, but so my dad pitched in the big leagues, but I was nowhere to be even thought of, right? So if I could have any sporting event, I would love to go back and watch him pitch. Because I I don't even think that I've never seen any film of him, or like I've seen pictures and he's got like all kinds of stuff, but he played with you know Clemente and Willie Stargil, and then he he got drafted by like expansion drafted by the Kansas City Royals, and then got traded for Lou Pinella. So then he's with the Seattle Pilots, and then he was with the pilots for a year, and they, you know, that's Jim Boughton's book, and then they moved to Milwaukee right after like during spring training. So like he had lived some really neat and some really cool times, so but I would have loved to because you know his stories get better with age, right? And but he got to the big league. At you know, 21 years old, and then basically back you know, tore his UCL and pitched another four years with it. They just sent him home for a year and said, Hey, just come back, we'll see you next spring training. But I would have loved to been able to see you know see him. That would be really neat.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

And those were some special teams there in Pittsburgh with Clemente and all those guys.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

Oh, we've got some stories, I'll tell you. I grew up on you know the Clemente stories and things like that.

The Regional Game From Absolute Chaos

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Well, what is your best story from either as a player or coaching the game of baseball?

SPEAKER_02 44:33

Best story. Okay. So this year's regionals, I was trying to think of like, okay, what is what is the life of a high school coach look like? And I was like, we could write a book on our last uh our last regional host game. So we finish second in our district, which means you get to host regionals, and we so we're we're hosting re and we have, you know, we don't have turf, so it's a it's an all-grass field. And the week of our sprinkler system starts to leak. So we have like this massive puddle in right field, and you know, this is like you get you get one shot deal. So we didn't want to have to move sites, we didn't want to do anything else. So we call our sprinkler company in, and they're like, okay, well, we can't be out there till Friday. Well, we start on Thursday, you know, like, okay, well, how do we dry this up? Like, these are all conversations that you have to have with it feels like 15 different people. So, okay, how do we dry this up? Well, we got to turn off all the water to all the fields. So the whole time that we're playing Thursday, we're watering the whole field with just a handheld little thing. And it's of course 95 degrees that week, you know. So we're out watering the dirt in between, and we I mean, it's just it's by the end of the first inning, it takes us like 30 minutes to do that. And so by the end of the first, you know, the first inning, it's already just dust again. So we did that. We didn't have water basically to the to the whole park during the first day of regionals. Well, they are coming out the next day on Friday to be able to fix it. And our our games are at four and six, and there's they're gonna be there from eight to ten, you know. Quick job. They said, Oh, it's a leaky valve, and so all we gotta do is dig it up and fix it. Well, as you know, things happen, and so we are expected to get massive hailstorms, so we have to move all the games up, and they are already at the park at eight, which is great, but it takes them four hours to fix this, and I'll send you a picture. They had to dig it our so our our field is I said 80 years old, and the sprinkler system is about 40 years old, so they had to dig a four-foot trench all the way down, and it's leaking the whole time, and I'm like the other team's warming up, and we haven't even filled in the dirt yet, and so I'm like, oh my gosh, what is going on? So I'll send you a picture of me like reaching down trying to trying to help them with this, but it ended up being there was like three different pipes that they had to replace, and then this valve, and then they couldn't get to stop leaking, so and we had to move the game times up because like I said, hailstorm and whatnot. So we finally like figure out a way to be a and I say, guys, it's wet, like it's a little bit wet here. It was really wet there, so I'm thankful that nobody like fell into a pit of mud. But so we get the first game in, and then we we are we had won the first two games, which means we were in the driver's seat, and we start getting into the into the regional championship game, which started at four. Well, of course, the weather came early, and so we got you know four innings in and we were playing really well. We were up almost close to a run rule, and then just immediately just so lightning strikes, and so of course, all right, here we go. So we looked at the radar and we were like, oh my gosh, like so on a dirt field, if you're gonna get massive amounts of rain, it's like, okay, well, they have some arms that are pretty good, and we don't want them to come back. So we're like, okay, all the dads, all the dads, let's tarp the field. So me and all of the you know, all the parents that wanted to help, we're out there tarping the field because the kids can't be out there for you know safety reasons, but we're out there tarping the field, and then it just it is pouring for about an hour and a half. And so now we're to about 6 30, and then it finally, finally, you know, subsides and moves on, and the you know, the sun comes out for a little while, and we're we're getting the tarp off the field, and for about the next hour, we're just trying to drain the whole thing. And we finally get ready to go, and it's almost nine o'clock, and it took about 20 minutes. We scored two runs, and then we got we got them with three outs, and the last last out, it was like a hundred mile an hour, just absolute just missile right to our center fielder for the out. And we got to dog pile on our home field, but and it's like 10:30 with like nobody in the stands because it was still just so wet. But long story short, we we were pretty blessed because I live about four miles south, and my entire roof and like everything was just like had to be replaced because of hail damage, and that missed us. So, all of that being said, that was that was a story that I thought of because I was like, I need to write all of this stuff down because I don't want to forget just yeah, 10 minutes before game time, and I'm trying to fill in a four-foot trench in right field, and it was it was quite the day, but it it ended up being really good. We got to you know, dog pile and go to the state tournament, and and it was it was fun, but it was it was a day that I will not forget.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Well, that's the great thing about baseball.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

There's so many just great stories that no, I remember when when our second game started, I'm still in rain boots, and the umpires are like, all right, let's go. So I've got like these big you know rubber boots on, and I'm I I'm not even coaching third base. I'm like trying to take them off and put my turf spec on, and hey, here we go. Let's let's get the game going. Okay.

unknown 49:56

There you go.

Closing Thoughts And Listener Reminder

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Well, it's Jonathan Gelnar, he's head baseball coach at Claremore High School in Oklahoma, also the host of Ahead of the Curve Podcast. Coach, thanks so much for taking time to be on Baseball Coaches Unplugged.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

Absolutely. Thanks again. I appreciate your time and thank you for doing this for all the coaches out there.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

Baseball Coaches Unplugged Podcast is proud to be partnered with the Netting Professionals Improving Programs, one facility at a time. Contact them today at 844-620-2707 or visit them online at www.netic pros.com. If you enjoyed today's show, please be sure to share it with a friend. Don't forget to subscribe and look for a new episode every Wednesday where I sit down with some of the best coaches from across the country. As always, I'm your host, Coach Ken Carpenter. Thanks for listening to Baseball Coaches and Park.